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Duolingo Suddenly Has Over Twice as Much Language Learning Material

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Re: Duolingo Suddenly Has Over Twice as Much Language Learning Material

#71

The reason Duolingo is ineffective in my opinion is multi-faceted. First, my main language for study is Japanese, and Duolingo's Japanese course is awful - these are the specific things I noticed when trying it: - There were several factual errors in their material and important points entirely omitted - Japanese grammar is very flexible and their tools aren't, so they often mark you as wrong when you were correct -…

> - Their approach to learning Kanji (borrowed Chinese characters) is completely ineffective

It's not only useless for learning the kanji, it's useless for learning the rest of the language is well. Long strings of kana are harder to read/parse (even when you don't recognise the kanji, you can parse to something like It's also easier to remember when building off the other kanji, and lets you build understanding. Say you know that 姉 is "older sister" and 妹 is "younger sister" -- you can make a pretty good guess that 姉妹 just means "sisters", even if you can't actually pronounce it. You can't really do that when all Duolingo has taught you is "older sister" is ane/あね and "younger sister" is imouto/いもうと and not the kanji form, and you certainly won't see how they are connected when "sisters" is introduced as shimai/しまい. Learning the kanji steepens the learning curve for sure (which is why I suppose Duolingo introduce very few), but it gives you a _much_ better understanding and I felt more comfortable manipulating the language.

Re: Duolingo Suddenly Has Over Twice as Much Language Learning Material

#72

I did Duolingo seriously for more than 370 days in a row. Spanish: I speak french and English so Spanish is relatively easy to complete. After completing the course, I tried having conversations with people (with friends but mostly uber drivers) and I was surprised how many times i learned it all wrong. I had to read a lot or children book to remedy that. French: As a french speaker, I went through it as a meta cours…

I had a similar experience and almost straight away I felt like I wouldn't learn much besides random vocabulary. Learning 'la tortuga es verde' and 'el hombre y el niño' and similar isn't particularly useful in the grand scheme of things and it's not going to help you get to 'la cuenta por favor', 'donde esta el baño', and so on. In fact you might run into certain situations where your vocab tells you one thing but the response is something else entirely. e.g. You might believe that 'estoy caliente' means that you're feeling really hot, because you learned that 'estoy' means 'I am' and 'caliente' means hot, but you would be confused when the room bursts into laughter and won't tell you what's so funny about it.

I spent a while using Busuu instead, which presents something more like a curriculum and lets you formulate your own answers to questions which are then reviewed by native speakers (in return for you reviewing the submissions of others). I found that incredibly effective because I wasn't stuck with putting strange sentences in the right order, I could get creative about how I described a red flag or a holiday I went on. More often than not I'd plug words and sentences into Google Translate, check dictionaries when I wasn't confident about a certain suggestion, and generally refactor the sentences until my gut said I had something that flowed reasonably well. Very intense and deliberate but it didn't take long to start posting to Facebook in Spanish. The only problem was that my writing was miles ahead of my speaking.

Re: Duolingo Suddenly Has Over Twice as Much Language Learning Material

#73

I still find their spaced repetition lacking. I never see some of the words again after seeing them for the first time.

I've found that Lingvist is pretty good at spaced repetition. It focuses on hammering in the words I don't pick up quickly, but it still reviews all of the vocabulary it offers pretty regularly.

Re: Duolingo Suddenly Has Over Twice as Much Language Learning Material

#74
post #55
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve found WaniKani to be amazing for SRS for kanji. If you are diligent about it you can go through the jouyou set in 18 months or so.

Looks interesting. I think I'd have to be a lot more dedicated to that, and need some other resource for learning grammar, vocabulary, and testing complete sentences. The nice thing about Duolingo for, say, French is that I can kind of mindlessly do it every day to keep my skills up and improve my vocabulary, and then do smaller bouts of studying using other methods to improve actual fluency. But with Japanese, Duoli…

> Any recommendations on good resources for learning the actual spoken language to go along with WaniKai?

BunPro is pretty good. It's fairly light on its own lessons, but will point in the right direction for material on each grammar point (both online and in the Genki books), and then has a spaced repetition framework for practice/memorising. It also ties into WaniKani fairly well, so that once you've learnt a kanji in WaniKani it will stop showing the furigana so you get kanji practice at the same time.

Re: Duolingo Suddenly Has Over Twice as Much Language Learning Material

#75

I speak Irish pretty well and Duolingo I think is a fantastic tool to get better and learn some new words that I didn't no. (Neither my dad nor I knew portán meant crab). The issue is that pronunciation in Irish is kinda varied but the lady who does it for Duolingo is on some extreme. The majority of Irish speakers would not pronounce things that way in the slightest and it would be misleading for someone who learned…

The lady who pronounces things for Duolingo is a native speaker. The issue with Irish is that most learners, including teachers, pronounce it horribly wrong. They're never exposed to native speakers os they just substitute English sounds in.

That said, DL's Irish course is useless for anything except a little vocab. There's tons of incorrect answers, or things that only work in certain situations, or direct translations from English nobody would say, or things that are mistranslated, etc etc.

Re: Duolingo Suddenly Has Over Twice as Much Language Learning Material

#76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been on duolingo since the beginning and am sure that I've spent more time with the site and app than 95% of the userbase. I've learned languages with duolingo.. and by that I don't mean duolingo will teach you a language. There's two things that I feel that almost everyone misses. #1: Using duolingo alone will get you to about an A2-B1 level in comprehension and an A1-A2 level in writing and speaking. This is j…

No way will Duo Lingo get you anywhere close to A2 for writing or speaking. MAYBE A1 if you try hard at it for a long long time in a language it well supports. To get to A2 you need a real tutor and real communication experience. I used Verbling to find a tutor and I traveled to Eastern Europe over the summer to practice and only after hundreds of hours of practice was I able to communicate in Russian to any degree e…

[deleted]

Re: Duolingo Suddenly Has Over Twice as Much Language Learning Material

#77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been on duolingo since the beginning and am sure that I've spent more time with the site and app than 95% of the userbase. I've learned languages with duolingo.. and by that I don't mean duolingo will teach you a language. There's two things that I feel that almost everyone misses. #1: Using duolingo alone will get you to about an A2-B1 level in comprehension and an A1-A2 level in writing and speaking. This is j…

No way will Duo Lingo get you anywhere close to A2 for writing or speaking. MAYBE A1 if you try hard at it for a long long time in a language it well supports. To get to A2 you need a real tutor and real communication experience. I used Verbling to find a tutor and I traveled to Eastern Europe over the summer to practice and only after hundreds of hours of practice was I able to communicate in Russian to any degree e…

This largely depends on the language.

More complex languages, yes, but for languages like swedish/norwegian/danish where there is very little grammar, I find it's much easier to progress within the limits of their program.

Re: Duolingo Suddenly Has Over Twice as Much Language Learning Material

#78
avid Duolingo user here.

1 - the new update is a massive disaster (I'll explain in a bit). Maybe it's different for other languages, but for Russian language I vehemently hate the update. I dislike it so much that I tracked down Duolingo PM person on LinkedIN and tried to message them directly.

The app updated for me a week ago with one dialogue that I tapped to confirm. Thinking it's just another incremental update. Suddenly everything changed. I thought I might figure it out, but nope. The article says, some of whom wrote excellent tutorials on the company’s message board [0]. It's not a tutorial as much as people are very confused (glad it wasn't just me) how the new update works and it's just a LONG thread to help with the confusion. If a mobile UI/UX designed for a consumer app needs a long thread like this, you can see it's probably was a poorly executed update.

The UI/UX is not the worse part, the worse part is that now I hate using Duolingo. Let me explain:

Duolingo has been a great daily motivator for me. The gamification of the app (up to now) was excellent. That is its biggest benefit. It's a motivator with a structured progression plan. The Russian lessons are okay, but they're just the starting point, I often have to go online and google something to understand the grammatical reasoning. All together, I have now bought 4 Russian books plus a Russian cheatsheet. That's just the Russian version, I was told the French has some hints and explanations.

Some backgrounds on Duolingo's gamification parameters:

A - You have a daily goal. This could be 1 lesson, 2 or etc. Users set this goal. I set mine to 1 lesson/day but I often do more. Each day when you complete a lesson you get some points. You get more points (from a choice of troves) if you watch an ad.

B - Each lesson is inside a specific language skills. Like "Adjectives 1". There are 1-8 lessons inside each skills.

C - When you complete all lessons inside a language skill you get more points and then you can move to the next skill. Each lesson is a series of questions in form of translation from English to Russian. Russian to English or listening to a phrase and typing it in Russian. I think there are like 20 questions per lesson (but I have never counted them).

D - When you start a new lesson (up till this new update) you have life levels (IMPORTANT background about the new update.). This is exactly like a video game. You get 5 or 6 lives which are visually represented as slices of arcs of a circle around a heart. If you have a grammatical error each time you answer a question you lose one life. If you lose all your lives you're unable to complete the lesson. If you can complete a lesson you lose your streak. But you can use tokens you have accumulated or buy tokens to get more life. So you can reach your daily goal. However(till now), if you went back to an already completed lesson you would not use any lives. So you could repeat an existing lesson and make your daily quota. This had two benefits. One, I could directly pick which lesson I wanted to repeat. More importantly it was an stress-free process for me to accomplish my daily goal. Basically you're not anxious about losing your allocated lives and instead you can focus on language learning.

D - You have a consecutive daily streak. I'm currently at 197 days now. Which for me it's a biggest motivator. I also get daily email reminders. If you lose your daily streak you can pay from $2.99 to $9.99 to maintain it. $9.99 if you have a longer streak.

E - There is a double-or-nothing wager if you can maintain a 7 day streak. Basically you spend 50 tokens and if you maintain a 7 day streak you get 100 tokens back.

So what is so terribly wrong with the new update?

i - The UX as I mentioned above is incomprehensible. Basically there is a long thread on what all these things mean and do now.

ii - MOST IMPORTANTLY, they added a lot of anxiety now to learning a language. The biggest motivator for me which was maintaining my daily streak, has now become a source of anxiety. Why? Because I was able to repeat existing task without the risk of losing all my lives and still finish my daily goal. After finish my daily goal, I would either repeat another lesson that I thought I was weak at or start a new lesson. But, it was all risk free. So I had no worries about making any mistakes just focus on learning. Now, you have no choice on what specific lesson inside a skill you want to repeat and new level or old level you lose life with each mistake. As a result I started looking elsewhere to see what other app I could use.

So why did Duolingo make such an awful update? I'm guessing to increase their revenues. The new updates at least with my experience is forcing people to buy more lives to maintain their streaks. I think it might be their way to force out the people who are just casual users, and focus on serious users like myself and try to better monetize their serious users. In practically you could end up paying as much as $1.99/day to maintain your daily streak.

2 - Is it a helpful teaching tool? It's just a great motivator. I already speak two languages natively (because I'm an immigrant). I took one course of Japanese in college and I did okay. And I still remember some phrases. However, learning Russian proved to be harder than I thought. For one, I'm older now and we do not retain languages as fast. But also Russian grammar and way of thinking in that language is very different. Verbs not only have present and past (masculine, feminine) tenses, there is also concept of perfective and imperfective, also Imperatives. Then nouns have gender and also nouns have six different cases. Then there is variations on some of these rules for cases. All that said. It's the vocabulary that finally becomes the hardest part. Because there are no easy mnemonic to remember a word since there are very few associations to words we are familiar with in English.

As I said above, I had to buy 4 Russian books and one cheatsheet. One visual learning book, two books on Russian etymology to help me remember the words better by understanding their etymology. One Russian grammar book which helps explain a lot of the stuff. The Russian cheatsheet for a quick reference of a grammatical rule. I've recently play Russian101 pod twice a week when I'm driving which has been helpful learning some new phrases. With all these, I still have to google stuff when I'm using Duolingo to quickly understand something.

It's worth mentioning Duolingo added TinyCard, flashcards app. Which actually helped to retain some of these words. I often parallel my daily Duolingo with TinyCard. It was probably their most important teaching tool they added.

Basically, it's a great motivational tool. It's a free way to get you started and get you motivated. However, I'm not sure with the new update if the motivation to continue after the first lessons will be there or not.

[0] https://www.duolingo.com/comment/26612939/Where-are-the-inst...

Re: Duolingo Suddenly Has Over Twice as Much Language Learning Material

#79
post #47

I speak Irish pretty well and Duolingo I think is a fantastic tool to get better and learn some new words that I didn't no. (Neither my dad nor I knew portán meant crab). The issue is that pronunciation in Irish is kinda varied but the lady who does it for Duolingo is on some extreme. The majority of Irish speakers would not pronounce things that way in the slightest and it would be misleading for someone who learned…

This is a good point. Especially for minority languages like Irish, they can end up being completely dominated in mass-media by a specific group. Duolingo and TG4 (main Irish-language tv channel) mostly speak Gaeilge Cúige Connacht (the western dialect) meaning the northern and southern pronunciation and style are neglected.

Which is funny, as the Caighdeán hardly reflects Connemara Irish at all. It's mostly Munster.
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