I think Duolingo is good for getting you past complete beginner but to go deeper I recommend Anki.
Why Anki?
Duolingo Suddenly Has Over Twice as Much Language Learning Material
31–40 of 274 posts
Re: Duolingo Suddenly Has Over Twice as Much Language Learning Material
#32[Meta] So far in this thread, there are several comments that could be the grounds for substantive discussion, but don't bother offering the substance. For example: Why does jonbarker recommend Anki for going deeper than "complete beginner"? What does zealsham mean by Duolingo lacking a "structural syllabus" and why is that problematic? The conversations can be a very valuable part of HN, but not if most comments are…
If you're interested in learning more about something someone said, maybe you could reply to them with a question? People often respond well to a bit of encouragement, and replies are more likely to be seen than a meta-comment.
Of course, and to the extent that I want answers to those specific questions I'm happy to ask.
Asking individual questions, though, doesn't encourage a different mindset in the way that I hope my meta-comment will.
Re: Duolingo Suddenly Has Over Twice as Much Language Learning Material
#33has anyone had success with any of these language-learning apps, even as supplemental material to a more traditional education? I've tried to use Duolingo for Japanese, with very little success on its own. Paired with my own studying, it was only a bit more helpful, but not more helpful than flashcards. Another app, LingoDeer, was better, because it had a curriculum and more unified lessons, and I could swap between…
I've used Duolingo French mostly daily since last August, along with reading children's books of gradually increasing difficulty. (I'm into the first Harry Potter book at this point.) I think I could've learned substantially more efficiently than with Duolingo, if I could've focused on it as a top goal, but it worked well enough as a way of turning time when feeling tired with no initiative into learning time. You just fire up the app and do what it asks you to, for some delimited time per day, and gradually do get good enough at French to read real books. I wish it were better still -- some other responses have pointed out criticisms I agree with -- but by the standards of when I grew up, in the 80s, it offers something that afaik just didn't exist then. I took several years of Spanish in school but probably could not read it as well as I read French now. (I'll have to grab a Spanish Harry Potter and check.)
Conversations out loud might be a different story.
Re: Duolingo Suddenly Has Over Twice as Much Language Learning Material
#34The reason Duolingo is ineffective in my opinion is multi-faceted. First, my main language for study is Japanese, and Duolingo's Japanese course is awful - these are the specific things I noticed when trying it: - There were several factual errors in their material and important points entirely omitted - Japanese grammar is very flexible and their tools aren't, so they often mark you as wrong when you were correct -…
The Japanese lessons are listed as being in beta.
But yeah, I think they're going to have to do a pretty complete revamp of the Japanese course, and possibly add some more features like handwriting recognition for learning the characters. I did a little of that on my own, putting together a flash card deck that I could type in Japanese in, and used Android's Japanese handwriting input method to enter characters, and found that pretty good for learning kana, but I didn't feel like putting all of the work in for building such decks for the kanji I was learning as well.
I find Duolingo much better for the lessons that are more well developed, and which the software was originally written for, like French. I think that they could eventually get to the point where the Japanese lessons are useful, but now is not that point; they will need both some software updates that make Japanese learning work better, and a revamp of the curriculum.
Re: Duolingo Suddenly Has Over Twice as Much Language Learning Material
#35I think Duolingo is good for getting you past complete beginner but to go deeper I recommend Anki.
If anybody interested specifically in Japanese Anki tips, see a previous discussion on this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16748008
Re: Duolingo Suddenly Has Over Twice as Much Language Learning Material
#36[Meta] So far in this thread, there are several comments that could be the grounds for substantive discussion, but don't bother offering the substance. For example: Why does jonbarker recommend Anki for going deeper than "complete beginner"? What does zealsham mean by Duolingo lacking a "structural syllabus" and why is that problematic? The conversations can be a very valuable part of HN, but not if most comments are…
Instead of making a "meta" post complaining, you could reply to those folks with your questions. That might help develop the discussions you would like to see more so than this tactic.
Re: Duolingo Suddenly Has Over Twice as Much Language Learning Material
#37The reason Duolingo is ineffective in my opinion is multi-faceted. First, my main language for study is Japanese, and Duolingo's Japanese course is awful - these are the specific things I noticed when trying it: - There were several factual errors in their material and important points entirely omitted - Japanese grammar is very flexible and their tools aren't, so they often mark you as wrong when you were correct -…
...trying to cram their prepackaged square-shaped tools into a variety of circle-shaped holes. All languages are different and each requires a different approach.
The first half of this is dead on. The second half is wrong.
Duolingo's top languages are in the Indo-European family. (Their most learned language is English, next is Spanish.) Their techniques are perfectly adequate for gaining elementary vocabulary a basic grounding in the grammar of those languages. The most common languages in that language family are positional. You really do need to learn to say "black shirt" in English versus "camisa negra" in Spanish. Saying it in the other order is wrong.
Their tools don't work well for other language families. However they do work for lots of languages that people want to learn.
Re: Duolingo Suddenly Has Over Twice as Much Language Learning Material
#38[Meta] So far in this thread, there are several comments that could be the grounds for substantive discussion, but don't bother offering the substance. For example: Why does jonbarker recommend Anki for going deeper than "complete beginner"? What does zealsham mean by Duolingo lacking a "structural syllabus" and why is that problematic? The conversations can be a very valuable part of HN, but not if most comments are…
Yeah, it's also bugging me. From a perspective of a person that's really into this topic and creates some stuff/software - this is invaluable info, only if would be more descriptive. Unfortunately most people treat such topics as "this title is bogus, my experience is completely different, here's why in one sentence, since I won't waste any second more about this". And that's why I love real world conversations since you can immediately receive feedback just by asking 'oh why is that'. In Internet this question just strikes the emptiness and that person doesn't feel obliged to provide any feedback.
And also makes discussion a mess since commenter doesn't provide any context to challenge that opinion - is he native in X language? Is he student/PhD/professor, etc.
Re: Duolingo Suddenly Has Over Twice as Much Language Learning Material
#39has anyone had success with any of these language-learning apps, even as supplemental material to a more traditional education? I've tried to use Duolingo for Japanese, with very little success on its own. Paired with my own studying, it was only a bit more helpful, but not more helpful than flashcards. Another app, LingoDeer, was better, because it had a curriculum and more unified lessons, and I could swap between…
I am currently using Duolingo to learn French and finding it tremendously useful as a way to practise. It's only been for the last 3 weeks or so but I feel that it is working much better for me than if I was trying to learn from videos or books. I should say however that I am also taking weekly face to face French lessons (it was my teacher who recommended Duolingo)
Re: Duolingo Suddenly Has Over Twice as Much Language Learning Material
#40Earlier quoted context omitted.
I find it fun (enough) and quick enough to use daily to keep my mind thinking in Spanish now and then, but I agree it isn't very effective at allowing me to speak it. I draw a blank whenever trying to converse in Spanish. But, I do find I can read quite a bit more Spanish after a year or so of using Duolingo mostly daily. I only use it for about 10 minutes a day, so I don't expect miracles. I find the "you are 53% fl…
I am also 40% or so fluent in Swedish >50% in Spanish, and similar for Portuguese and Korean. I have come to the conclusion that people in those countries are either very dumb and have little to talk about, or these numbers aren’t really correct. I’m not sure which it is yet ;)
They have removed the fluency rating, for good reasons.