Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Google can be forced to pull results globally, Canada supreme court rules

theguardian.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 75 posts

Re: Google can be forced to pull results globally, Canada supreme court rules

#41

Post by lowbloodsugar »

tw04 wrote: post #21
jerf wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your question at the moment is ill-defined. Carefully expand out the nationalities of the "you" who is buying the info, the nationalities of the person whom the info is about, the nationality of the subsidiary from which the information is being purchased, and the nationality under which you believe they should be suable. ("Jurisdiction", if you prefer, may replace "nationality".) There's a lot of combinations in the…

Chinese subsidiary, Chinese buyer, US citizen.

Logically, for China Google to sell your data to Chinese Buyer, then US Google must have sold your data to China Google. If it is illegal for US Google to sell data to third parties, then US Google could be sued for selling that data to China Google. However, since the USA is all about "Freedom meaning we can do what the fuck we like with your data", and not "Freedom from persecution", there's no reason that US Google couldn't do what you describe. If you were a European citizen, and it was German Google selling your data to China Google (or US Google), then that'd be a very different story.

It seems odd that you're worried about China, when you live in a nation that has been proven to wiretap you by the government, and where private transactions are authorized based on information which three credit score companies store completely insecurely.

Re: Google can be forced to pull results globally, Canada supreme court rules

#42

Post by s2g »

dragonwriter wrote: post #35
dsacco wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you mean that sovereignty grants that authority in principle, or in actuality? If the United States doesn't enforce the demands of another country with respect to a company in its borders, the company can freely ignore those demands. That various countries choose to have treaties enforcing the demands of others seems to be less about sovereignty and more about good relations. For example, Germany ordered Project G…

> Do you mean that sovereignty grants that authority in principle, or in actuality? Yes, both. > If the United States doesn't enforce the demands of another country with respect to a company in its borders, the company can freely ignore those demands. The authority to legislate and the ability to impose consequences are two different things. It is, for instance, indisputable that the US has authority to criinalize ta…

The US has strongarmed other countries into helping enforce US tax law.

It's crazy to see American's pretend the US isn't a massive offender when it comes to pushing their laws well outside their borders.

Re: Google can be forced to pull results globally, Canada supreme court rules

#44

Post by sp332 »

jacksmith21006 wrote: post #22
tw04 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So if Google operates a subsidiary in China, they should be completely immune from a lawsuit in the US, if say, they sell your private personal info to the highest bidder in that nation? I don't see how that could be abused...

Google does not sell your personal data. They do use to Target ads but does not leave Google.

Google might not sell data wholesale, but they do sell it retail, so to speak. If I make an ad targeting gay dog owners in NYC, and someone clicks that ad, I know that Google knows they're a gay dog owner in NYC. Google sold me that person's data.

Re: Google can be forced to pull results globally, Canada supreme court rules

#45

Post by hunter23 »

mattsfrey wrote: post #4

This needs to be rejected whole sale. One nation does NOT have the authority to dictate what a company can do outside of it's borders and concerns. The censorship issues that have been cropping up lately in these regards are appalling. The "hate speech" legislature of many EU nations comes to mind. If that insanity were to be enforced "world wide" it's seriously time for new service providers to step up that aren't s…

I think it's actually quite common for a country to dictate what it's citizens and companies can do outside of its borders.

For example,

* A US company can be prosecuted on corruption charges if it bribes an official out of its borders. This is even if what they do is not considered bribery in the country itself; you are bound to the US law even when you are doing business outside of it. The US has used this approach to clamp down corruption cases of companies in developing countries.

* Trade embargos work this way. We have an embargo on Iran and ban US based companies from doing business with them, even if its through a subsidiary that operates outside our borders

* US citizens are required to pay taxes when they live in another country (we are the only country to tax globally)

* As a US traveler, you have to follow some US laws even when you are in other countries. The US has used this to combat sex tourism. So while it may be easy to go around the country's age of consent laws while you are visting, you can still be prosecuted in the US. This is to prevent child sex trafficking etc.

Nomentatus has listed other examples in this thread.

Enforcement, on the other hand is pretty difficult. I don't see how Canada force Google to do things outside of it's borders - the worst they can do is kick Youtube out their country.

Re: Google can be forced to pull results globally, Canada supreme court rules

#46

Post by s2g »

jpiasetz wrote: post #3

This has already been blocked by a US court https://www.zdnet.com/article/us-court-sides-with-google-aga... so it's in the BC court to get modified.

> threatens free speech on the global internet," wrote Judge Edward Davila of the US District Court for Northern California. Really, pulling listings for a counterfeit product is a free speech issue?

That's dumb.

Re: Google can be forced to pull results globally, Canada supreme court rules

#48

Post by eviltandem »

ksk wrote: post #10

Its interesting that Google is making a 'freedom of expression' argument when they themselves heavily censor YouTube content. Google controls the platform their users use, and the Government controls the 'platform' that both companies and users use. I suppose nobody cares about the users in both cases.

Google is allowed to host or not whatever they want. They can do it wherever they want. They are not a government.

A government somewhere telling Google what they have to do globally? That's scary/stupid.

Re: Google can be forced to pull results globally, Canada supreme court rules

#49

Post by gpm »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #36
asdfologist wrote: post #7

Is this even enforceable?

Google sells over $2B worth of advertising to Canadians every year, plus a bunch of phones and other services. If they're not willing to abandon that revenue, it's certainly very enforceable.

Not to mention 3 offices with a good number of employees between them. Some very high profile (e.g. Geoffrey Hinton).

Re: Google can be forced to pull results globally, Canada supreme court rules

#50

Post by kodablah »

izacus wrote: post #20
mattsfrey wrote: post #4

This needs to be rejected whole sale. One nation does NOT have the authority to dictate what a company can do outside of it's borders and concerns. The censorship issues that have been cropping up lately in these regards are appalling. The "hate speech" legislature of many EU nations comes to mind. If that insanity were to be enforced "world wide" it's seriously time for new service providers to step up that aren't s…

So does that mean that we should punish Google when it pulls our YouTube video due to trademark concerns valid only inside US and videos with pro-Russian, pro-Chinese, pro-ISIS political slant? Or does this your idea only work for US cultural norms? Should we then start processes of getting Google out of EU, Asia? After all, a media service who distributes illegal content inside your borders, spreads US propaganda, b…

> Or does this your idea only work for US cultural norms?

Always these false equivalences, every time. I can count on it. In this case, I'm sure GP thinks as I do, that no US court should be able to tell a company what to take down elsewhere in the world. That Google chooses to is another matter. Please please, can we stop trying to deflect the real issue with these whataboutisms?

Post reply on HN