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The NES Homebrew Scene

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Re: The NES Homebrew Scene

#31

Post by [deleted] »

ythn wrote: post #8
ashleyn wrote: post #3

The appeal of retro console/computer dev is essentially an exercise in constrained programming. Systems of these era had extremely constrained specifications, and making the most of them is an art in itself.

Sometimes I wish we had more constraints because I fear we've all forgotten how to write fast and lean code in favor of semi-fast but very bloated code. I remember back when I first used Windows 95, opening programs was very snappy and I was impressed. I imagined Windows of the future being even snappier, but somehow the opposite has happened. Now every application takes a long time to boot up, check for updates, etc…

[deleted]

Re: The NES Homebrew Scene

#32

Post by [deleted] »

jackhack wrote: post #30
simias wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Assembly (specially on the 6502) is conceptually very simple and, while it may not be trivial to translate higher-level concepts to its simplicity, as long as what you want can be readily expressed in it, it's trivially easy. That's precisely why I would qualify ASM as "tricky" and "tedious". You're bogged down in the tiny details that nowadays a compiler would probably solve as well (or even better) than you do. If…

You've captured exactly what it feels like -- this is the constant tension among asm developers. I love really high performance code, but I also like accomplishing more than one trivial thing per hour. It's hard to even remember the time before I knew C, when coding in assembly was all there was. When it was "normal." But I do remember the first time I wrote for the M68000 chipset and finding a multiply and divide in…

[deleted]

Re: The NES Homebrew Scene

#33

Post by phjesusthatguy3 »

I got to the "and these are the reasons why" section before I really had to give up. The reasons why you remember the NES over every other video game system of the era was that Nintendo were monopolizing bastards at that time, and if you (as a developer) made games for the NES to be released in the USA, you were essentially forfeiting the right to release those games for other systems in the USA.

Honestly, I'm glad Nintendo got knocked down a peg on their last few systems. I'm just not happy about what they taught their competitors.

Re: The NES Homebrew Scene

#34

Post by trentnix »

Love the NES and love retro gaming, but the article completely contradicts itself. It's not just driven by nostalgia, but...

It says something about the legacy of the NES that most homebrewers continue to make games for the system for reasons other than nostalgia. It’s mostly because they love the NES.

“I’ve always wanted to create NES games, ever since I was a kid. I remember sitting around drawing maps on paper, daydreaming of what my designs would be like to play,” explained Nathan Tolbert, a relatively new figure to the NES homebrew scene who’s already built a couple of titles for the annual NESDEV competition.

So...nostalgia.

One creator, Antione Fantys, wants to bring back some of the elements from retro games that don’t seem to exist in the modern generation. Because the NES is the most iconic of these systems, he enjoys programming with it, citing the limitations of the system as a means to creating the most accurate representation of a retro game as possible.

More nostalgia.

The article pretty much proves these homebrews are the product of nostalgia. Not that there is anything wrong with that.

Re: The NES Homebrew Scene

#35

Post by ythn »

lmm wrote: post #24
ythn wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sometimes I wish we had more constraints because I fear we've all forgotten how to write fast and lean code in favor of semi-fast but very bloated code. I remember back when I first used Windows 95, opening programs was very snappy and I was impressed. I imagined Windows of the future being even snappier, but somehow the opposite has happened. Now every application takes a long time to boot up, check for updates, etc…

We haven't forgotten, we choose to put our time and energy into features rather than performance because that's what end users care more about (at least, it's what they vote with their feet for).

"tragedy of the commons"

I as a freelance developer sometimes make releases whose sole purpose is to refactor/slim down/increase performance with no new features. Yeah, some of my users are disappointed I didn't prioritize X feature they wanted, but it helps mitigate tragedy of the commons a little.

Individually the users are well-meaning with their feature wants/needs, but collectively all the different feature requests can turn your app into a bloated monstrosity if you aren't careful.

Re: The NES Homebrew Scene

#36

Post by mieseratte »

trentnix wrote: post #34

Love the NES and love retro gaming, but the article completely contradicts itself. It's not just driven by nostalgia, but... It says something about the legacy of the NES that most homebrewers continue to make games for the system for reasons other than nostalgia. It’s mostly because they love the NES. “I’ve always wanted to create NES games, ever since I was a kid. I remember sitting around drawing maps on paper, da…

I used to do a lot of dev against the NES. 6502 for the NES was my first language, wrote my own assembler, built games, cartridges, etc. etc. Hell, I even have a PCB, minus the PRG and CHR ROMs, from an old Ice Hockey cartridge on my desk in front of me as I write this.

Never had an NES growing up, never played one until I got into NES dev. I was turned onto it by a classmate. We're both too young to have had the NES growing up, so we simply couldn't be a nostalgia play. There's a lot of folks who get into because it's surprisingly approachable, and scratches the itch of "make a game." TFA just had a bad quote...

Re: The NES Homebrew Scene

#37

Post by airforce1 »

jacquesm wrote: post #25
dietrichepp wrote: post #15

I recently started work on an NES project, and wrote the first part of it up: https://www.moria.us/blog/2018/03/nes-development It's a lot of work. I've managed to get data from Tiled into my ROM image, and I'm working on figuring out an architecture for scrolling and displaying a status bar. Implementing scrolling and a status bar sounds simple but is actually a total pain. You only have two screens of tiles to work…

But programming with restrictions like that will make you a better programmer. Nothing brings out creativity better than a limiting environment.

> Nothing brings out creativity better than a limiting environment.

This is so true as a life principle!

I once read a book about the development of laser guided bombs [1], and in it it talked about how Texas Instruments made the first viable prototype [2] on a shoe-string budget even though they were competing against a large government contractor with a huge budget.

Because of the budgetary constraints, TI couldn't afford multi-million dollar wind tunnels for testing, so they built scale models of the bomb and dropped them into swimming pools, performing mathematics transforms on the results using the drag coefficients of water vs air. They came up with a bunch of other innovations as well, such as the shuttlecock seeker head and made a superior product that vastly outperformed the high-budget contractor.

[1] https://www.amazon.com/Weapons-Choice-Development-Precision-... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paveway

Re: The NES Homebrew Scene

#38

Post by ASalazarMX »

trentnix wrote: post #34

Love the NES and love retro gaming, but the article completely contradicts itself. It's not just driven by nostalgia, but... It says something about the legacy of the NES that most homebrewers continue to make games for the system for reasons other than nostalgia. It’s mostly because they love the NES. “I’ve always wanted to create NES games, ever since I was a kid. I remember sitting around drawing maps on paper, da…

"The NES Homebrew Scene Is Driven by Nostalgia"

Hey, why isn't anyone reading our article?

Re: The NES Homebrew Scene

#39

Post by trentnix »

mieseratte wrote: post #36
trentnix wrote: post #34

Love the NES and love retro gaming, but the article completely contradicts itself. It's not just driven by nostalgia, but... It says something about the legacy of the NES that most homebrewers continue to make games for the system for reasons other than nostalgia. It’s mostly because they love the NES. “I’ve always wanted to create NES games, ever since I was a kid. I remember sitting around drawing maps on paper, da…

I used to do a lot of dev against the NES. 6502 for the NES was my first language, wrote my own assembler, built games, cartridges, etc. etc. Hell, I even have a PCB, minus the PRG and CHR ROMs, from an old Ice Hockey cartridge on my desk in front of me as I write this. Never had an NES growing up, never played one until I got into NES dev. I was turned onto it by a classmate. We're both too young to have had the NES…

Nostalgia doesn't have to be purely about one's childhood interests, although it frequently is. In your case, your interest still seems a product of nostalgia.

I don't really understand why people view interests based on nostalgia as a weakness. Being nostalgic doesn't have to mean that life isn't good or that things were better once upon a time.

Like what you like, do what you do, and enjoy what you enjoy without apology!

Re: The NES Homebrew Scene

#40

Post by ashleyn »

ythn wrote: post #8
ashleyn wrote: post #3

The appeal of retro console/computer dev is essentially an exercise in constrained programming. Systems of these era had extremely constrained specifications, and making the most of them is an art in itself.

Sometimes I wish we had more constraints because I fear we've all forgotten how to write fast and lean code in favor of semi-fast but very bloated code. I remember back when I first used Windows 95, opening programs was very snappy and I was impressed. I imagined Windows of the future being even snappier, but somehow the opposite has happened. Now every application takes a long time to boot up, check for updates, etc…

It's a dying art because now even the cheapest SoCs are capable of running full Linux with a big stack like Node. The Pi Zero is $5 and capable of all these things.

Perhaps the last refuge is battery-powered microcontrollers.

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