Mark Zuckerberg Refuses to Admit How Facebook Works • Hacker News Board

Re: Mark Zuckerberg Refuses to Admit How Facebook Works

#21

Post by Slansitartop » Thu, Apr 12, 2018, 3:14 PM UTC

thisisit wrote: post #13

justinzollars wrote: post #4

I think the questions were also horrible. Watching two days of testimony it seemed only Congresswoman Dingell from Michigan had any grasp of how tracking technology works. My big takeaway is that we need more engineers in congress.

Or maybe more engineers becoming aides or staff to these politicians?

Or maybe just spend more time with aides trying to grasp the technical issues?

I'm going to send some letters to my Senators and Representative asking them to work closely with the EFF, EPIC, etc. to formulate any regulation on this, rather than Facebook itself.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg Refuses to Admit How Facebook Works

#22

Post by inlined » Thu, Apr 12, 2018, 3:14 PM UTC

warent wrote: post #9

dlandis wrote: post #5

> Zuckerberg claimed not to know what "shadow profiles" are Did he really claim outright to not know what they are? Anyone have that quote from the testimony?

I do recall hearing live that he said he wasn't familiar with the term "shadow profiles." This may have been honest, I hadn't heard it before this hearing either, but then again I'm not the CEO of Facebook, so his answer is certainly troubling

Given that employees are told they can no longer use the word "shadow profile" to describe them, I suspect he knew what they meant.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg Refuses to Admit How Facebook Works

#23

Post by kristianc » Thu, Apr 12, 2018, 3:14 PM UTC

>Make the most of every campaign with these four strategies. Unlike display ads which target people based on cookies, Facebook lets you define and reach the exact target audience you want. You'll get the right eyes on your ads, while maximizing your time, budget and growth potential.

Zuckerberg is going to lose his shit when he sees what his Digital Ads team has done behind his back. Facebook is brazen about being a grossly invasive advertising company, just not when they're talking to their users. [1]

[1] https://www.facebook.com/business/a/performance-marketing-st...

Re: Mark Zuckerberg Refuses to Admit How Facebook Works

#24

Post by TekMol » Thu, Apr 12, 2018, 3:14 PM UTC

Is lying in front of congress a crime?

If I was a senator, I would have asked these two questions:

When I look at a product in an onlineshop like Amazon, afterwards I see adverts for this product on Facebook. How does this work?

When I visit a physical store, afterwards I see adverts for this store on Facebook. Even on my desktop computer. Even though I don't have any facebook apps on my phone. How does this work?

If he lies and says he don't know, from then on he would be at the mercy of many employees at FB whith whom he has talked about this type of data collection and sharing.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg Refuses to Admit How Facebook Works

#25

Post by enitihas » Thu, Apr 12, 2018, 3:14 PM UTC

shmerl wrote: post #15

So why should anyone trust him? People should use open source social networks that can be audited.

There are lots of things people"should" do. But in general, the more indispensable a thing becomes, the more governments try to help people decide better or even try to decide for people, as people will do whatever is convenient to them.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg Refuses to Admit How Facebook Works

#26

Post by sorokod » Thu, Apr 12, 2018, 3:15 PM UTC

warent wrote: post #9

dlandis wrote: post #5

> Zuckerberg claimed not to know what "shadow profiles" are Did he really claim outright to not know what they are? Anyone have that quote from the testimony?

I do recall hearing live that he said he wasn't familiar with the term "shadow profiles." This may have been honest, I hadn't heard it before this hearing either, but then again I'm not the CEO of Facebook, so his answer is certainly troubling

It may be called "preliminary profile" or similar internally. That would allow him to be "unfamiliar".

Re: Mark Zuckerberg Refuses to Admit How Facebook Works

#27

Post by Slansitartop » Thu, Apr 12, 2018, 3:15 PM UTC

fixermark wrote: post #17

common_ wrote: post #7

Here's how Zuckerberg's testimony works: 1. When he says he doesn't know, he actually knows. 2. When he says he knows, and that the answer is "more AI," he doesn't actually know.

> When he says he doesn't know, he actually knows I don't think we have reason to believe the CEO is deeply familiar with all the strategies FB uses for session unification and user tracking. It's a fast-moving field with a lot of technical detail that a CEO doesn't actually need to keep day-to-day tabs on.

Except this CEO has an engineering/development background, and I'd expect him to be deeply familiar with the criticisms on his company.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg Refuses to Admit How Facebook Works

#28

Post by Arnt » Thu, Apr 12, 2018, 3:16 PM UTC

gsich wrote: post #19

fixermark wrote: post #14

""" Zuckerberg reluctantly acknowledged that Facebook gathers information on people who aren't signed up for Facebook for what he said were "security purposes." """ That's a pretty disingenuous way to phrase Zuckerberg's response to a question of whether Facebook uses cookie tracking for logged-out users. Which of course it does, and it's of course used for security purposes; one has to be able to unify sessions from…

No. There is no need to be able to do this.

Please elaborate.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg Refuses to Admit How Facebook Works

#29

Post by sambull » Thu, Apr 12, 2018, 3:16 PM UTC

fixermark wrote: post #14

""" Zuckerberg reluctantly acknowledged that Facebook gathers information on people who aren't signed up for Facebook for what he said were "security purposes." """ That's a pretty disingenuous way to phrase Zuckerberg's response to a question of whether Facebook uses cookie tracking for logged-out users. Which of course it does, and it's of course used for security purposes; one has to be able to unify sessions from…

Or as facebook is doing just people tracking.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg Refuses to Admit How Facebook Works

#30

Post by daveFNbuck » Thu, Apr 12, 2018, 3:17 PM UTC

Waterluvian wrote: post #2

Is that so surprising? You're asking him to talk about the one thing that makes Facebook a viable revenue generator. I also feel like the use of "admit" in the headline is disingenuous. I have zero expertise in this field but my intuition is that Facebook runs on an incredibly sensitive business model. Like an animal specialised to a specific biome. Adjust the conditions a bit and it might perish in a few generations…

> I also feel like the use of "admit" in the headline is disingenuous.

Yet you seem to be saying that Zuckerberg is trying to hide his business model to protect it from legislators. Doesn't that make the word "admit" appropriate? What other word would you use for something someone doesn't want to say during a hearing?