What is the point of Autopilot? It's not self-driving. You're not supposed to let go of the steering wheel and you have to be completely alert to take over if there are problems. Isn't it easier to just not use it in the first place?
Tesla issues strongest statement yet blaming driver for deadly crash
161–170 of 850 posts
Re: Tesla issues strongest statement yet blaming driver for deadly crash
#162The reason tesla needs to make this kind of statements is very simple: Guy in a renault has this accident and it is just routine, renault won't see their shares fall and there will be next to no coverage of the incident. In the case of tesla any accident gets to the front page of reddit, trends in twitter, is shared in facebook, let alone printed on newspapers, these statements are needed to fight that amount of bad…
Well, to be fair, if someone in the US is able to find a running Renault that can go faster than 30mph under its own power, it's pretty exceptional. I think that Tesla's response is tone-deaf and ill-advised. I'm not presently a Tesla shareholder, but I do have a Model 3 reservation coming up soon. Guess which one of those this public statement makes me want to change...
I think this classic Renault will do a little over 30mph.
https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/cars-for-sale/renault/r...
Re: Tesla issues strongest statement yet blaming driver for deadly crash
#163Insurance rates will probably go up on "self-crashing cars" if this trend continues. For some reason, people aren't dying so dramatically due to cruise control. I love cruise control, because it helps me focus on "driving" (which I consider steering + observing). The Tesla autopilot feature seems to do the opposite: it helps you focus on not driving . This ain't Volvo, folks.
Any car in motion has the potential to be 'self-crashing' if the driver does not pay attention. All straight roads end eventually.
Re: Tesla issues strongest statement yet blaming driver for deadly crash
#164This is gonna be interesting as apparently the "Barrier" [1] bug is only in newer AP2 models per latest A/B tests done by cpddan (who did the very first crash reproduction scenario in Chicago [2]) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WX0bR_EQ47E Tesla Model X with AP2.5, SW 2018.6.1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zK2Om8Q0IA MS 75, AP1, SW 2018.6.1 1. https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/8a0jfh/autopil... . "wor…
I get that the vision system might have been fooled by how the lane widens before the split.
What I don't get is why the radar doesn't pick up the barrier itself. It should have been getting a nice, healthy return signal from it, lots of metal at all kinds of angles. What I'm saying is, this is not a stealthy barrier.
Re: Tesla issues strongest statement yet blaming driver for deadly crash
#165I agree that this statement seems cold, and blames the driver, but from a legal perspective, can it be anything else? They can't admit anything or publically take any responsibility, because it could be used against them in the court case right? Even in their statement they don't say "Autopilot is not perfect" they say "According to the family, Mr. Huang was well aware that Autopilot was not perfect". The only thing…
They initially said that out of respect for the family, they would not make further statements until the investigation has completed. This is the second time they have broken that promise.
Re: Tesla issues strongest statement yet blaming driver for deadly crash
#166Insurance rates will probably go up on "self-crashing cars" if this trend continues. For some reason, people aren't dying so dramatically due to cruise control. I love cruise control, because it helps me focus on "driving" (which I consider steering + observing). The Tesla autopilot feature seems to do the opposite: it helps you focus on not driving . This ain't Volvo, folks.
Cruise control DOES cause deaths:
http://www.indianainjury.com/trucking-accident-verdict-leads...
...but it's not Tesla, so a single death isn't plastered over every news site and discussed ad nauseum by tech sites.
EDIT: More cruise control deaths: https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/nov/24/skoda-drive... https://www.levylaw.com/cruise-control-accidents-defective-p... https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/5645195/m1-motorway-crash-lorr...
Re: Tesla issues strongest statement yet blaming driver for deadly crash
#167Earlier quoted context omitted.
Which is why pilots are still in control of the plane while autopilot is active. Even while active, there is still a "pilot flying" and pilots are still responsible for scanning gauges and readouts and verifying the autopilot is doing what they expect. They do not just turn on autopilot and goof off
Just like Tesla's auto pilot? Drivers are supposed to be "flying", scanning gauges and the road ahead to ensure the autopilot is doing what they expect... I think people that say that "autopilot" is a bad name for this feature don't really understand what an "autopilot" does.
An airplane under autopilot is not a second or two away from a fatal crash.
Re: Tesla issues strongest statement yet blaming driver for deadly crash
#168I used to be in awe of Teslas and I have always been a big fan of Musk, and even after the crash I still imagined myself one day buying a Tesla. But after this response, I've completely lost respect for the company, for Musk, and I don't think I'll ever buy one or advocate for someone buying one. The driver had previously reported to Tesla 7 to 10 times that there was an issue with autopilot, but Tesla told him "no t…
If Tesla was shipping a Level 3 system, your analysis would be great. But they aren't. They're shipping a Level 2 system where you're reminded each time that you enable it that you've got to remain alert. And which dings at you if you don't keep your hands on the steering wheel.
This is irrelevant. Before his death, Tesla told the driver that there was no issue with the autopilot feature. This likely contributed to his continued use of the feature. That feature, because of the same issue (which Tesla denied existed) killed him. And now Tesla is saying that there is an issue, and that it's his fault for using the system.
Whether or not it's a full self-driving mode, or if it's an assisted auto-pilot, or even if it was just some lame GPS navigation, is completely irrelevant. The bottom line is: there was an issue that was reported, Tesla denied it, the man died because of that issue, and now Tesla is contradicting themselves by saying there is an issue, but are deflecting blame.
At this point, Tesla is eroding the ability for anyone to put trust in their cars. What if you have a Model X and one day it unsafely opens the doors while you are driving on the highway, so you take it to the dealer but they say "nope, can't replicate the issue, your car is safe to use". Are you going to believe them? Why, when they've just confirmed that they have a track record of being wrong?
Oh wait, that already happened: https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/6giiao/my_mode...
Re: Tesla issues strongest statement yet blaming driver for deadly crash
#169Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Tesla is extremely clear that these are only driver assistance features Promoting the system with the name 'Autopilot' is, to my mind, quite a bit less than extremely clear communication. This name provides Tesla's critics with a constant line of attack, which will continue right up until they reach level 5. I consider myself a hardcore Tesla fan but I think they've botched their messaging, and this latest statemen…
Promoting the system with the name 'Autopilot' is, to my mind, quite a bit less than extremely clear communication. Is it, though? Autopilot has never in the history of those systems meant hands off controls, attention off driving. Pilots with their autopilots on in airplanes are still flying and watching gauges.
> Is it, though? Autopilot has never in the history of those systems meant hands off controls, attention off driving. Pilots with their autopilots on in airplanes are still flying and watching gauges.
You are correct about the history of autopilot systems in planes, but when it comes to mass communication technically correct is not necessarily the best kind of correct. I wouldn't assume most people are aware of how autopilot systems work in planes.
Edit: just to make it clear, I don't believe this accident was caused by any confusion about the name. Rather, as pointed out by others in this discussion, I think the fact that the system works great for long stretches (some say they never experienced any problems) makes it exceedingly hard for drivers to remain alert. The brain's optimization tendencies are so strong that I think systems relying on people to stay alert when the action-effect-evaluation feedback loop is broken are inherently unsafe. My point is that with suboptimal messaging, Tesla is making it harder for themselves to keep the public on their side when tragedies like this occur.
Re: Tesla issues strongest statement yet blaming driver for deadly crash
#170Earlier quoted context omitted.
If the usage is so subjective, I can't even understand why its allowed. You seem to be saying its no better than a two year old driving. You create a situation in which its "ok" for a two year old to drive? We have laws that state no 2yo's are allowed to be behind the wheel. Why is this 2yo allowed at all?
The same reason cruise control is allowed.
I think the solution is to hold Elon Musk/Tesla liable for their misleading statements on FSD, Tesla Network, AP2 and their timelines about future capability.
Future promises if made should come with renaming the product to highlight its capabilities.