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Tesla issues strongest statement yet blaming driver for deadly crash

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Re: Tesla issues strongest statement yet blaming driver for deadly crash

#91
post #72
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So the crux here is the naming of the not-really-self-driving feature. This is not an Autopilot for cars. It "requires the driver to be alert and have hands on the wheel". That's a driving assist. Call it the world's best driving assist or whatever, but not Autopilot. (I have seen the usual reply from Tesla apologists that it's a good name because of its aircraft analogy. From a usability perspective that is just so.…

Aircraft autopilot still require actual pilots to pay attention when flying. So really autopilot is the correct term, people are simply assuming it means a level 5 self driving car when it does not. “And really there’s a sweet spot you have to find where you use automation to relieve the pilot of some amount of workload.” http://nationalpost.com/news/world/disaster-on-autopilot-how... 10 years ago airlines could have…

> So really autopilot is the correct term, people are simply assuming it means a level 5 self driving car when it does not.

The basics of good usability is that whatever the average person/user is likely to do is to be considered to be what the system should deal with.

As you say yourself, people somehow, super mysteriously, seem to think that the feature name Autopilot implies L5 driving. That's fine.

My point is that the only proper response to that kind of expectation setting is to live up to L5 autonomous driving capabilities. As we both know that is not yet available, so.. don't use that feature name until it actually is possible. Quite simple.

Re: Tesla issues strongest statement yet blaming driver for deadly crash

#92
post #2

Full statement: "We are very sorry for the family's loss. According to the family, Mr. Huang was well aware that Autopilot was not perfect and, specifically, he told them it was not reliable in that exact location, yet he nonetheless engaged Autopilot at that location. The crash happened on a clear day with several hundred feet of visibility ahead, which means that the only way for this accident to have occurred is i…

What a disgusting response.

Re: Tesla issues strongest statement yet blaming driver for deadly crash

#93
post #70
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think they're trying to hammer home the point that autopilot is very much not level 5 self-driving. The media is constantly referring to "self-driving" Teslas, so of course it's easy for members of the public to get confused, but this is very different from e.g. the Uber self-driving fatality that occurred recently, where the car was supposed to be able to drive 100% autonomously. Tesla is extremely clear that thes…

Jeez, that damned media again misinforming people. Who could have expected a feature called AUTOPILOT to mean self driving, who?!

Not to mention the fact that the marketing around it strongly encourages that interpretation (showing people driving without touching the steering wheel, etc.)

Re: Tesla issues strongest statement yet blaming driver for deadly crash

#94
post #8

I have to wonder why Tesla keeps doubling down on victim-blaming. Is this a case of Elon Musk being insecure about criticism (since he's demonstrated a tendency in the past to react poorly to it)? Or is Tesla trying to actually lower their legal liability? Edit: To clarify, in most of these crashes, it's usually a combination of Tesla's fault and the driver's fault. Which is to say, the driver could have avoided the…

Tesla is exerting and reinforcing that it is not liable for poor driver decisions. If you use any vehicle safety aid while not paying attention, and you die or kill someone while in control of the vehicle, that is your liability. Whether they call their system "Autopilot" is immaterial. You are the responsibly party as the driver, and this is made clear both at purchase time and during vehicle use.

The requirement that the driver stay attentive does not excuse any and all potential faults with the system.

Re: Tesla issues strongest statement yet blaming driver for deadly crash

#95
post #10

This is a very upsetting response. Yes, the driver could have paid more attention, and yes, he shouldn't have activated Autopilot in an area where he knew Tesla's autopilot was not working correctly. However, Tesla calling it "Autopilot" should be no longer allowed. It's clear that it is most certainly not that, and customers are not treating this feature in a careful and cautious fashion, and I do believe that's due…

It'll work 99% of the time and lull you into a false sense of security. The other 1% of the time you better be ready to take over with little notice or there's a chance you'll end up dead. And with automatic updates a section of road that has been fine for a year suddenly tries to kill you...

Blaming the victim certainly doesn't sit well with me.

Re: Tesla issues strongest statement yet blaming driver for deadly crash

#96
post #18

Tesla probably shouldn't be saying anything about this at all, even just to avoid giving it more news cycles. But if they were going to say something, here's what they should have said the first time. ---- We take great care in building our cars to save lives. Forty thousands Americans die on the roads each year. That's a statistic. But even a single death of a Tesla driver or passenger is a tragedy. This has affecte…

The general sentiment is correct but the wording implies some degree of acceptance of liability: Autopilot was engaged... took no evasive action... engineers are investigating... failed to detect. They should have issued a single, very simple statement that they are investigating the crash and that any resulting improvements would be distributed to all Tesla vehicles, so that such accidents can no longer happen even…

Doesn't help that fucking Elon Musk and half of Silicon Valley keeps saying AI technology will solve all driving problems, when they should know fully well that autonomous cars are never going to happen without structural changes to roads themselves.

Silicon Valley needs to stop trying to make autonomous cars happen.

Re: Tesla issues strongest statement yet blaming driver for deadly crash

#97
post #8

I have to wonder why Tesla keeps doubling down on victim-blaming. Is this a case of Elon Musk being insecure about criticism (since he's demonstrated a tendency in the past to react poorly to it)? Or is Tesla trying to actually lower their legal liability? Edit: To clarify, in most of these crashes, it's usually a combination of Tesla's fault and the driver's fault. Which is to say, the driver could have avoided the…

Where's your evidence that any of the people who've crashed in these Teslas were "victims"?

A dictionary, which will define "victim" similar to

> noun > a person harmed, injured, or killed as a result of a crime, accident, or other event or action.

Re: Tesla issues strongest statement yet blaming driver for deadly crash

#98
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jeez, that damned media again misinforming people. Who could have expected a feature called AUTOPILOT to mean self driving, who?!

Anyone who knows what an autopilot [1] is understands that it does not make an aircraft autonomous. It's an assistive device - a stabilizer for wings and pitch. To call the Tesla Model S an "autonomous vehicle" simply because it has a feature called autopilot is disingenuous. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autopilot

I don't know about legality, but imo there is an argument to be made that it's very unethical to feign ignorance as to what the vast majority associates "autopilot" with.

Re: Tesla issues strongest statement yet blaming driver for deadly crash

#99

I agree that this statement seems cold, and blames the driver, but from a legal perspective, can it be anything else? They can't admit anything or publically take any responsibility, because it could be used against them in the court case right? Even in their statement they don't say "Autopilot is not perfect" they say "According to the family, Mr. Huang was well aware that Autopilot was not perfect". The only thing…

They could do what Uber did and take responsibility, apologize and settle with the family.

Re: Tesla issues strongest statement yet blaming driver for deadly crash

#100
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So the crux here is the naming of the not-really-self-driving feature. This is not an Autopilot for cars. It "requires the driver to be alert and have hands on the wheel". That's a driving assist. Call it the world's best driving assist or whatever, but not Autopilot. (I have seen the usual reply from Tesla apologists that it's a good name because of its aircraft analogy. From a usability perspective that is just so.…

> So the crux here is the naming of the not-really-self-driving feature It should be called, ”I’m Feeling Lucky.”

Love it!
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