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Tesla issues strongest statement yet blaming driver for deadly crash

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Re: Tesla issues strongest statement yet blaming driver for deadly crash

#31

Post by brandon272 »

selectout wrote: post #23
exotree wrote: post #10

This is a very upsetting response. Yes, the driver could have paid more attention, and yes, he shouldn't have activated Autopilot in an area where he knew Tesla's autopilot was not working correctly. However, Tesla calling it "Autopilot" should be no longer allowed. It's clear that it is most certainly not that, and customers are not treating this feature in a careful and cautious fashion, and I do believe that's due…

A big part of being allowed to take your hands off the wheel is probably "how do I detect the hands are on the wheel?". In current S/X with no interior camera the way autopilot works is you have to "yank" the wheel every now and then to prove you have your hands on. Requiring constant "yanking" wouldn't work, and there are often long stretches of roads on highways (where Autopilot is meant to work) that wouldn't requ…

Every time I learn about how these cars are handling things I end up disappointed and concerned because the actual implementation is way less impressive and seemingly less foolproof than I - and I'm sure many other people - are assuming they are.

I would have never guessed "hands on wheel" is detected only if the driver yanks the wheel. I figured it was camera based or that the wheel had capacitive sensors.

Re: Tesla issues strongest statement yet blaming driver for deadly crash

#32

Post by mjamesaustin »

tc wrote: post #18

Tesla probably shouldn't be saying anything about this at all, even just to avoid giving it more news cycles. But if they were going to say something, here's what they should have said the first time. ---- We take great care in building our cars to save lives. Forty thousands Americans die on the roads each year. That's a statistic. But even a single death of a Tesla driver or passenger is a tragedy. This has affecte…

What a stark difference in tone this kind of statement would have made. Tesla's statement reeks of a desire to protect themselves from liability or a potential lawsuit. It's very sad to see them adopting such language in the face of such a tragedy.

Re: Tesla issues strongest statement yet blaming driver for deadly crash

#33

Post by TaylorAlexander »

robotkdick wrote: post #29
TaylorAlexander wrote: post #19

I am a huge fan of Elon Musk and a small TSLA share holder, but there is something about Tesla and Musk’s response to this that feels so wrong. It seems two faced. On the one hand, they shout about how great and safe their technology is, and on the other hand they blame someone for dying when they chose to rely on that technology. Is it safe or unsafe? I know it’s not that simple, but this response still saddens me.…

I hope you're not driving...or using autopilot.. while you wrote this (kidding)

Hah, nope just walking through a Mountain View parking lot.

Re: Tesla issues strongest statement yet blaming driver for deadly crash

#34

Post by bentruyman »

watwut wrote: post #25
toomuchtodo wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla is exerting and reinforcing that it is not liable for poor driver decisions. If you use any vehicle safety aid while not paying attention, and you die or kill someone while in control of the vehicle, that is your liability. Whether they call their system "Autopilot" is immaterial. You are the responsibly party as the driver, and this is made clear both at purchase time and during vehicle use.

How they call the system drives user expectations and trust. They call it autopilot so that people buy it due to having these expectations. It is consequential and thus legitimate subject to critique.

Autopilot is the correct term here – seems like most folks unfortunately don't know what it actually means. So I wouldn't disagree with you.

Re: Tesla issues strongest statement yet blaming driver for deadly crash

#35

Post by tshannon »

I agree that this statement seems cold, and blames the driver, but from a legal perspective, can it be anything else?

They can't admit anything or publically take any responsibility, because it could be used against them in the court case right?

Even in their statement they don't say "Autopilot is not perfect" they say "According to the family, Mr. Huang was well aware that Autopilot was not perfect".

The only thing the actually admit in the statement is that "Tesla is extremely clear that Autopilot requires the driver to be alert and have hands on the wheel".

It's cold and heartless, but anything else opens them up to liability right?

Re: Tesla issues strongest statement yet blaming driver for deadly crash

#36

Post by robotkdick »

GM's recent TV advertisement shows the driver engaging their version of autopilot and crossing his hands...I was like woah! That would never make it through legal if they weren't very very confident about their tech. Contrast that image with Tesla's demand that drivers keep their hands on the wheel and it seems that GM is miles ahead of everyone on autopilot.

Re: Tesla issues strongest statement yet blaming driver for deadly crash

#37

Post by Negitivefrags »

Diederich wrote: post #16
otoburb wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> If the system detects that hands are not on, it provides visual and auditory alerts. This happened several times on Mr. Huang's drive that day. If the system detects that hands are not on the wheel, perhaps something else should be done that will incentivize the driver to disengage Autopilot. Perhaps, send warnings alerts to law enforcement, insurance companies, or emergency contacts? Not sure what the fallback pr…

It first flashes, then beeps at you, and then disengages, so you start slowing down. I believe that if that happens, it won't re-engage again until after the car is stopped, shut off, and re-started.

To reenable autopilot you not only need to restart the car, but also go back into the car settings and turn it on again.

When you do this it presents you with a window that outlines your liability that you must accept. It looks like this:

https://boygeniusreport.files.wordpress.com/2016/07/autostee...

Re: Tesla issues strongest statement yet blaming driver for deadly crash

#39

Post by o_____________o »

jijojv wrote: post #5

This is gonna be interesting as apparently the "Barrier" [1] bug is only in newer AP2 models per latest A/B tests done by cpddan (who did the very first crash reproduction scenario in Chicago [2]) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WX0bR_EQ47E Tesla Model X with AP2.5, SW 2018.6.1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zK2Om8Q0IA MS 75, AP1, SW 2018.6.1 1. https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/8a0jfh/autopil... . "wor…

You know you're living in the future when a car driving you headlong into concrete is being correctly identified as a bug.

Re: Tesla issues strongest statement yet blaming driver for deadly crash

#40

Post by Robotbeat »

watwut wrote: post #25
toomuchtodo wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla is exerting and reinforcing that it is not liable for poor driver decisions. If you use any vehicle safety aid while not paying attention, and you die or kill someone while in control of the vehicle, that is your liability. Whether they call their system "Autopilot" is immaterial. You are the responsibly party as the driver, and this is made clear both at purchase time and during vehicle use.

How they call the system drives user expectations and trust. They call it autopilot so that people buy it due to having these expectations. It is consequential and thus legitimate subject to critique.

Calling it autopilot implies you have to pay attention. It implies it's NOT self-driving or autonomous any more than airplanes (which virtually all have some sort of autopilot) are.
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