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Apple Relaxes iOS Restrictions On Development Tools, Publishes Review Guidelines

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Re: Apple Relaxes iOS Restrictions On Development Tools, Publishes Review Guidelines

#231

Post by mkramlich »

msbarnett wrote: post #230
mkramlich wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think a lot of the complaints about having to use ObjC come from folks that (a) find it inferior to one or more languages they already know (Python, Ruby, etc.) and/or (b) feel it is somewhat of a platform ghetto (effectively only used on iOS and Mac) and therefore not as efficient use of one's time investment as another language and stack that you can use on many other platforms, and for many other types of applic…

Eh, a lot of the complaints just strike me as not understanding a tool in terms of its context; Objective-C is, intentionally, a strict superset of C, so it carries a lot of baggage in order to not break C code. It predates most of what we now think of as C++. It managed to bring Smalltalk-style dynamic messaging to C in a manner that wasn't insanely slow and didn't depend on heavy-weight virtual machines. Are Python…

I understand and agree with much of what you say. However I am -- increasingly as I get older -- a fan of Getting Things Done, so I prefer tools that let me do that better. This is the role where ObjC is inferior to alternatives like Python, among others.

I was doing assembly programming in the mid/late 80's, then was a C programmer for about 5 years, then C++ for about 2, then Java for many years after that before switching to Python as my default goto language. Leaving out experience with several other languages. I am a language geek, not super hardcore as some, but far above average. So I'm quite confident in saying ObjC is a needlessly archaic, verbose and complex language compared to alternatives. Is it totally without merits? Of course not. Was it designed to fit a niche and context? Yes, and perhaps it achieved those goals well, and some would argue better than C++. But all of this is irrelevant when it exists as part of a larger set of choices available to a modern programmer who wants to Get Something Done and has sufficient freedom to choose his tech mix. Given the right permutation of constraints any tech can become the Perfect Choice for those constraints, so saying that alone about ObjC is not a compliment.

Re: Apple Relaxes iOS Restrictions On Development Tools, Publishes Review Guidelines

#232

Post by DerekL »

jrockway wrote: post #201
cardinal23 wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Instead of just saying too many rules, do you have points in the list that you object to? One of the problems with rejection until now was the lack of specific guidelines about what would be rejected. It seems to me that a comprehensive document would unavoidably have many rules, and the prohibitions that I read seemed reasonable.

The tipping point was "no card counting". While card counting may be against the rules at a particular casino, it's not illegal in general and does not belong in the "legal" section. Whenever Apple is confronted with a situation where the user could use a feature or tool for something that's "against the rules", they tend to disable the feature. See, for example, iTunes' inability to import music from an iPod. It cou…

Counting cards by using just your brain is legal. But using a device is illegal in many places, like Nevada.

Re: Apple Relaxes iOS Restrictions On Development Tools, Publishes Review Guidelines

#233

Post by bombs »

wheaties wrote: post #18

So does this mean they'll actually follow their own review guidelines or is it going to mean you can read them but @#$%!, you're still at the whim of whomever gets your app?

"This is a living document, and new apps presenting new questions may result in new rules at any time. Perhaps your app will trigger this."

They're not limited to rejecting you for only the things that are in the guidelines. The guidelines say this.

Re: Apple Relaxes iOS Restrictions On Development Tools, Publishes Review Guidelines

#234

Post by meelash »

DeusExMachina wrote: post #28

This puzzles me. Why did they change them after a couple of months? I'm really wondering. Maybe now they will raise the bar for quality rejecting apps that do not follow guidelines or do not provide enough functionality? Sounds strange, but I cannot think about any other reason. EDIT: reading through the just published guidelines, it is exactly like this.

hmm... haven't I read somewhere about building something people want and releasing quickly, and then iterating on it when you hear from people what they want differently?

Re: Apple Relaxes iOS Restrictions On Development Tools, Publishes Review Guidelines

#235

Post by gte910h »

msbarnett wrote: post #203
new2 wrote: post #195

The death of Objective-C as far as iOS development goes?

Seems unlikely. It's always been possible to create Mac apps in, say, C++ using Carbon or Qt, but ObjC/Cocoa has remained very popular despite that. It's an exceptionally good and low friction framework that people tend to like. Most of the anti-Objective-C sentiment seems to come from people offended at the notion that they might be required to learn something new rather than stay forever in their comfort zone.

Objective-C isn't bad, as I like both C and Smalltalk, it seemed quite normal to me.

I will say the lack of a persistent ORM that isn't as complicated as removing an internal organ is a bit of a liability (simple, core data is not).

And yeah yeah, persistent object graph blah blah.

Re: Apple Relaxes iOS Restrictions On Development Tools, Publishes Review Guidelines

#236

Post by fragmede »

drivebyacct2 wrote: post #163
illumin8 wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google doesn't let you release an app that allows wifi tethering without rooting your phone. I'm sure there are other examples. Google/Apple = the same. They all bow before the carrier gods. Edit: I can't reply to the child for some reason (too deep), but I just wanted to let you know that you're wrong: 2.2 as distributed by Verizon does not have tethering unless you use their carrier replaced version which bills you…

And how is that Google's fault? Are you going to blame the locked NAND and signed bootloader on Google too? Carriers locking down Android is just as bad a reason to blame Google as faulting iOS for not having tethering is (considering that the OS has been capable for a long time but ATT drug their feet).

What? It is Google's fault that they allow carrier lockdown. It's their platform. They could say if you do X, no Google Android apps allowed. They have already done that, for certain values of X; extending X to include carrier lockdown is certainly a possibility.

That Apple didn't make allowing tethering a deal breaker in their negotiations with ATT was Apple's decision and goes to what Mr. Jobs views/ed as a market requirement. The iPhone seems to have done alright without tethering.

Re: Apple Relaxes iOS Restrictions On Development Tools, Publishes Review Guidelines

#237

Post by elai »

brownleej wrote: post #206
elai wrote: post #161

I hope they add searchability to in app purchases soon. If you make travel guides for many countries, it looks like you can't sell them as separate apps easily anymore. If someone searches for Bali, it's going to get missed if you make a travel guide for Bali and 50 other regions.

Couldn't you just list all the countries you support in the app description?

No, app descriptions are not searchable anymore. Instead you have to insert max 100 characters of keywords and that, and the app title and a few other small things are what are searched. Thats what you would of done quite a while ago when they searched the entire app description. It's half the reason why you see spam apps in the first place. Would you call lonely planet doing the same as spam apps or not, not taking in consideration they do the same with their books?

Re: Apple Relaxes iOS Restrictions On Development Tools, Publishes Review Guidelines

#238

Post by stoney »

jacquesm wrote: post #227
stoney wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you change your mind now? I decided on Monday to buy an Android phone (HTC Desire), but haven't got around to going to the store yet.

Funny, I bought an HTC desire as well. Would I change my mind? That's a tough one. I have a Mac (borrowed it to a friend because of lack of use), so I could develop for an iPhone as well. I like the android ecosystem a bit better because it has more variety, it reminds me more of the PC platform in terms of hardware than the iphone gear. The increased variety means that you'll have to write more flexible software, bu…

Android vs iPhone definitely reminds me of PC vs Mac. It will be interesting to see if things play out the same way in the long term.

I'm planning to do some app development stuff and my thoughts were that maybe in the long term Android will be the bigger market simply because of the variety in Android phones from cutting edge to mid-priced (and eventually I expect to see some cheap low-end Anroid phones).

Re: Apple Relaxes iOS Restrictions On Development Tools, Publishes Review Guidelines

#239

Post by drewse »

I think this yet another step in Apple's progress in refining the App Store for both the consumer and the developer. Every thing Apple does with the App Store is taken one baby step at a time, but their baby steps have added up. If you look back at how different the App Store was when it came out, you'll notice how far it's come since then.

These review guidelines that Apple recently posted were not needed by most developers, and will still only be relevant to those 1% of developers whose apps are controversial or unlucky enough to get rejected. However, since this has been covered so much by the publicity (just like the iPhone 4 antennagate issue and Adobe-Apple war), Apple felt the need to succumb to the media. Sure, it was not that big of a thing in the first place to just publish their review guidelines, but isn't it unusual that Apple is having to quiet down the media more and more often these days? Apple shouldn't have to do this, but with people taking everything out of proportion (all these issues only affect the small minority), it's hard for them to ignore it. What do you think?

Re: Apple Relaxes iOS Restrictions On Development Tools, Publishes Review Guidelines

#240

Post by binaryfinery »

brettbender wrote: post #157
binaryfinery wrote: post #131

Well, I've spent the last six months learning the shitiest language and libraries with the most backwards arse tools. What a total waste of my time. Can't decide whether I'm furious at this loss of time and destruction of my competitive advantage, or deliriously happy at the thought of being able to use proper tools like Resharper and IDEA. I suppose the fact is I still have a competitive advantage. I have one client…

If you hate researching new technologies and learning new languages, maybe developer wasn't the right profession?

"New" as in "having recently come into existence", yes. Love it.

"New" as in "new to me" but actually created in 1986, no, not so much.

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