Teen monitoring apps don't work, and drive a wedge between teens and parents • Hacker News Board

Re: Teen monitoring apps don't work, and drive a wedge between teens and parents

#121

Post by throwaway84742 » Wed, Apr 11, 2018, 4:24 PM UTC

rainbowmverse wrote: post #118

throwaway84742 wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> having kids [does not make] one uniquely qualified That is true. But the reverse is not. NOT having kids pretty much guarantees you have mostly romanticized notions about how things should be, and vastly underestimate the issues that parents have to face on a daily basis. Non-parents also seem to universally think that all kids are the same and merely talking to them is enough discipline. It will be enough for a s…

How is suggesting your kid might get into programming by modding a game a romanticized notion? That's one of the most common "how I got into programming" stories. It's completely non-controversial.

But that's not what you suggested. You suggested a "proactive" approach by which I take you mean letting the kid hack on this stuff at least partly on his own.

That _is_ a romanticized notion in our particular case. On his own, he quickly runs into obstacles, gets bored, and then fires up YouTube after about 5 minutes, in order to veg out.

I do teach him programming, though. He also does some more with his math tutor that comes in on weekends. He is kind of frustrated with our efforts at educating him. He thinks he should be writing grade-A 3D games right away, even though he utterly lacks both the programming and the math skills to do so. My advice to start with something much simpler has been falling on deaf ears so far.

Without structure, this particular 14 year old would not bathe, would not brush his teeth, would not do homework, would not properly eat, would not go outside or exercise, would not properly sleep, and would substitute all of the above with watching YouTube and playing Minecraft. So you can see why this is a concern.

Re: Teen monitoring apps don't work, and drive a wedge between teens and parents

#122

Post by throwaway84742 » Wed, Apr 11, 2018, 4:27 PM UTC

Cakez0r wrote: post #119

throwaway84742 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m ok with that. At least it’s better than “YouTube watcher”, or “Minecraft player”.

What will you do when your kid is in college?

I might be able to exhale and relax. If I don't do something now he will never get into college in the first place.

Re: Teen monitoring apps don't work, and drive a wedge between teens and parents

#123

Post by sathackr » Wed, Apr 11, 2018, 4:27 PM UTC

Zaak wrote: post #113

sathackr wrote: post #16

Trust. But verify. Step-father of a 12 year old boy here. We started monitoring his internet after we caught him looking at inappropriate videos on youtube. He knows he is being monitored and I only block actual porn sites. Neither of us like it but until he has earned our trust back, the situation will not change. I'm his parent, not his friend. My job isn't to make him like me, it's to raise him with proper values…

> protect him from the dangers he doesn't yet know exist or may not yet understand This is the big one for me. My job is not primarily to protect my children, it's to prepare them to be functioning adults. To that end, I protect them from dangers that they're not yet ready to face, while teaching them skills to recognize and handle the dangers eventually. Have you discussed pornography with your stepson? If you haven…

Absolutely, we've had several discussions about it, mostly surrounding the unrealistic expectations of women and sex in general that it promotes and its effect on emotional development of your brain.

It does no good to tell someone they can't do something without explaining why. I encourage him to ask questions when he doesn't understand something, and will never give "because I said so" as an answer.

My goal is for him to understand why these things are harmful while protecting him from them until he has the facilities to manage it on his own.

Just like a bike with training wheels. Teaching him to ride while protecting him from falling, until he can ride on his own.

Re: Teen monitoring apps don't work, and drive a wedge between teens and parents

#124

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Apr 11, 2018, 4:31 PM UTC

sathackr wrote: post #123

Zaak wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> protect him from the dangers he doesn't yet know exist or may not yet understand This is the big one for me. My job is not primarily to protect my children, it's to prepare them to be functioning adults. To that end, I protect them from dangers that they're not yet ready to face, while teaching them skills to recognize and handle the dangers eventually. Have you discussed pornography with your stepson? If you haven…

Absolutely, we've had several discussions about it, mostly surrounding the unrealistic expectations of women and sex in general that it promotes and its effect on emotional development of your brain. It does no good to tell someone they can't do something without explaining why. I encourage him to ask questions when he doesn't understand something, and will never give "because I said so" as an answer. My goal is for…

[deleted]

Re: Teen monitoring apps don't work, and drive a wedge between teens and parents

#125

Post by sathackr » Wed, Apr 11, 2018, 4:35 PM UTC

michaelgrafl wrote: post #57

sathackr wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What consequences could you imagine a parent should allow a 10 year old to experience? The consequences of an abnormal sexual development or an unhealthy attitude towards females due to stumbling across hardcore porn and becoming addicted to it at a young age? The consequences of mistaking someone on the internet as a friend and giving them your full address and name so they could bring you ice cream? There are thing…

That's what makes parenting hard. You have to make those decisions. Ideally, you protect your child from things that will damage them permanently, but let them enough freedom to experiment and get hurt, so they can have a true learning experience. For example, I don't think a 10 year old will develop an unhealthy attitude towards females just because of watching porn. I would guess you can talk about gender issues an…

> Ideally, you protect your child from things that will damage them permanently, but let them enough freedom to experiment and get hurt, so they can have a true learning experience.

Exactly what I'm trying to do by allowing most things that may be considered inappropriate and only blocking the worst.

> For example, I don't think a 10 year old will develop an unhealthy attitude towards females just because of watching porn. I would guess you can talk about gender issues and even porn with a 10 year old to offset the effect of it.

There are many studies that say otherwise. Also not every 10 year old is the same. There are certainly some that could watch porn without being affected, and others that should not. That's also my job as a parent -- to assess the childs capability to deal with something and tailor their environment to best match that, while addressing any deficiencies.

> Essentially, if you have good communication with your child and keep him or her busy with healthy activities, he or she won't have much reason to do stupid stuff on the Internet. So your made up scenarios kind of predicate subpar parenting to begin with.

In the nature vs nurture field, there is far more nature than I ever thought. He has not been significantly involved with his biological father for the majority(95%+) of his life, yet I see many of his father's behaviors in him.

Childrens' behavior is a product of their environment, their parenting, as well as their genes. I can't say whether I'm a good parent or subpar, but I feel like I'm doing a much better job than many others that I see. Sure, I'm not perfect, but none of us are. The child I'm dealing with today is a result of my parenting, his mother's parenting, his parent's genes, and the environment he grew up in.

Re: Teen monitoring apps don't work, and drive a wedge between teens and parents

#126

Post by sathackr » Wed, Apr 11, 2018, 4:37 PM UTC

neap24 wrote: post #50

sathackr wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What consequences could you imagine a parent should allow a 10 year old to experience? The consequences of an abnormal sexual development or an unhealthy attitude towards females due to stumbling across hardcore porn and becoming addicted to it at a young age? The consequences of mistaking someone on the internet as a friend and giving them your full address and name so they could bring you ice cream? There are thing…

Allowing a kid to experience consequences necessitates open dialogue with them about issues they may encounter. Sadly, many parents choose to monitor rather than discuss because it's easier. Many kids will still run into the things you state above...even with over-protective parents.

I think you have a preconception on how I interact with my stepson that is not correct.

Monitoring and discussion are not mutually exclusive.

Re: Teen monitoring apps don't work, and drive a wedge between teens and parents

#127

Post by sathackr » Wed, Apr 11, 2018, 4:38 PM UTC

malnourish wrote: post #45

sathackr wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What consequences could you imagine a parent should allow a 10 year old to experience? The consequences of an abnormal sexual development or an unhealthy attitude towards females due to stumbling across hardcore porn and becoming addicted to it at a young age? The consequences of mistaking someone on the internet as a friend and giving them your full address and name so they could bring you ice cream? There are thing…

>The consequences of an abnormal sexual development or an unhealthy attitude towards females due to stumbling across hardcore porn and becoming addicted to it at a young age? Do you have evidence/sources to back this claim?

https://fightthenewdrug.org/ from a related comment

I've read many studies, of which I didn't catalog, but the above link should get you started.

Re: Teen monitoring apps don't work, and drive a wedge between teens and parents

#128

Post by sathackr » Wed, Apr 11, 2018, 4:43 PM UTC

jackvalentine wrote: post #38

sathackr wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What consequences could you imagine a parent should allow a 10 year old to experience? The consequences of an abnormal sexual development or an unhealthy attitude towards females due to stumbling across hardcore porn and becoming addicted to it at a young age? The consequences of mistaking someone on the internet as a friend and giving them your full address and name so they could bring you ice cream? There are thing…

> By installing a monitoring and filtering system and informing my child of this and developing in him an idea of what is acceptable and appropriate and what is not and protecting him from potentially life-altering harm. I think OP's point though is at what cost? It's a given that protecting kids from harm is good, but to be convincing in your case I want to see that you can enumerate the downsides and state why they…

I don't conduct a fully peer-reviewed study for each parenting decision I make.

It seems to me, for my particular situation and this particular child, that this is the best course of action.

Obviously it may not be the best course for every situation or every child.

Hopefully each parent can make their own decisions based upon their knowledge and values. Nobody can say 'all kids won't be harmed if they watch porn' or 'every kid who watches porn will have developmental issues'. That's what makes a parent. You apply your best judgement to the situation and try to effect the best outcome.

Re: Teen monitoring apps don't work, and drive a wedge between teens and parents

#129

Post by sathackr » Wed, Apr 11, 2018, 4:49 PM UTC

Mononokay wrote: post #49

sathackr wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What consequences could you imagine a parent should allow a 10 year old to experience? The consequences of an abnormal sexual development or an unhealthy attitude towards females due to stumbling across hardcore porn and becoming addicted to it at a young age? The consequences of mistaking someone on the internet as a friend and giving them your full address and name so they could bring you ice cream? There are thing…

It might just be a generational thing, but how stupid do you think ten year olds are? It's silly to think that even an eight year old is as naive as you're describing - you should just tell your child what he shouldn't do, and let him go on those guidelines.

Just recently in the news:

tl;dr: 10 year old girl talks to a man on a game, tells him where she lives, leaves a note to her parents saying she went to a friend's house. He picks her up, takes her to a motel and rapes her.

http://www.theledger.com/news/20180329/polk-county-sheriffs-...

I bet those parents wish they had been paying more attention to what she was doing online.

Not every 10 year old is that naive and not every 10 year old would do something like that. But some 10 year olds are, and someone who does not know the child is not qualified to discern the child's level of naivete. As a parent, I feel I am qualified to discern this and apply the appropriate safeguards to the child's environment to mitigate the dangers until the child is capable of handling the risks himself.

Re: Teen monitoring apps don't work, and drive a wedge between teens and parents

#130

Post by Zak » Wed, Apr 11, 2018, 4:52 PM UTC

moate wrote: post #109

existencebox wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nearly identical experience. Met a girl at a Rocky Horror, we were maybe 17 at the time. I didn't even show her how to break her parental controls, only found out that her parents were monitoring everything she did when they called my cell phone and threatened to call the police on me if I ever talked to her again. I was still close with some other friends of hers, so over the next few years I could say with convicti…

I understand why parental controls exist (8 year-olds think that butts are funny, but I really do not want them searching for butts on the internet) but treating teenagers like stupid babies is...stupid. We, the people on HN, represent a uniquely tech-savy segment of the population, and can (probably? usually?) say that we're better with software than our kids so we actually COULD put restrictions in place that they…

It seems to me that parental controls might be useful for preventing young kids from encountering content they're not ready to handle by accident, but become useless at the point where the child actively wants to bypass them.