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The Programming Talent Myth (2015)

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Re: The Programming Talent Myth (2015)

#11

Post by EpicEng »

> > The truth is that programming isn't a passion or a talent, it is just a bunch of skills that can be learned.

This may be true if your definition of programming is the literal act of writing code / recalling syntax, and learning new tools. Of course, that's not really what programming is. That's the easy part.

Programming is about problem solving, code is simply the tool. Critical thinking/problem solving ability, the ability to think in abstractions, the ability to hold a large amount of information in your head all at once, etc. are all skills, and not skills that the majority of people are particularly good at.

We wouldn't judge a carpenter on e.g. his/her ability to use a saw, or a EE on their ability to use a scope. I never understood why so many put so much emphasis on the tools a software dev knows.

Re: The Programming Talent Myth (2015)

#12

Post by sidlls »

vinceguidry wrote: post #6
itamarst wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or, employers will start taking the long view and actually start investing in their employees.

That's not an investment, that's giving your money away. Would you spend $X0,000 on something that can walk out the door at any moment?

Did you ever consider that the employee might be a smidge less likely to walk out the door if the employer invested in him or her, recognized his or her achievements in a timely manner with responsibility and authority (promotion) and compensated him or her fairly?

Seems to me employees "are likely to walk out the door" mainly because employers view them as expendible expenses and not humans trading labor for something of value

Re: The Programming Talent Myth (2015)

#13

Post by mawburn »

vinceguidry wrote: post #9
mawburn wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I totally agree with the things you said and that talent does play a factor, but I feel like playing devil's advocate here a little bit and point how that you can replace every instance of "talented" with "dedicated" and what you said still works.

That's outside of an employee's ability to decide to be. The business has deadlines and needs, and writes the checks, so it's up to them to decide how long it takes for an employee to become a net asset for the company.

Right, but I meant more along the lines of dedication in that the employee spends their free time outside of work, studying, experimenting, and learning. This can drastically reduce the ramp up time and has nothing to do with natural ability.

A talented employee might be able to spend less time outside of work, but a dedicated one can be just as competent in the same amount of time. If you have a developer who has both, then obviously that would reduce the ramp up time even more.

Re: The Programming Talent Myth (2015)

#14

Post by itamarst »

EpicEng wrote: post #11

> > The truth is that programming isn't a passion or a talent, it is just a bunch of skills that can be learned. This may be true if your definition of programming is the literal act of writing code / recalling syntax, and learning new tools. Of course, that's not really what programming is. That's the easy part. Programming is about problem solving, code is simply the tool. Critical thinking/problem solving ability,…

Critical thinking, logic, empathy, etc. are all skills one can learn. And that's the point.

Re: The Programming Talent Myth (2015)

#15

Post by EpicEng »

itamarst wrote: post #14
EpicEng wrote: post #11

> > The truth is that programming isn't a passion or a talent, it is just a bunch of skills that can be learned. This may be true if your definition of programming is the literal act of writing code / recalling syntax, and learning new tools. Of course, that's not really what programming is. That's the easy part. Programming is about problem solving, code is simply the tool. Critical thinking/problem solving ability,…

Critical thinking, logic, empathy, etc. are all skills one can learn . And that's the point.

Eh, I'm not convinced of that. I don't think you can take any person and teach them to think through problems logically. It seems simple enough, and you can certainly make them _better_ at it, but I really do believe we all have upper limits on our potential.

Re: The Programming Talent Myth (2015)

#16

Post by chiefalchemist »

itamarst wrote: post #14
EpicEng wrote: post #11

> > The truth is that programming isn't a passion or a talent, it is just a bunch of skills that can be learned. This may be true if your definition of programming is the literal act of writing code / recalling syntax, and learning new tools. Of course, that's not really what programming is. That's the easy part. Programming is about problem solving, code is simply the tool. Critical thinking/problem solving ability,…

Critical thinking, logic, empathy, etc. are all skills one can learn . And that's the point.

Yes. Learnable. But problem solving doesn't come easy. Critical thinking is another tough nut to crack.

Re: The Programming Talent Myth (2015)

#17

Post by BurritoAlPastor »

EpicEng wrote: post #11

> > The truth is that programming isn't a passion or a talent, it is just a bunch of skills that can be learned. This may be true if your definition of programming is the literal act of writing code / recalling syntax, and learning new tools. Of course, that's not really what programming is. That's the easy part. Programming is about problem solving, code is simply the tool. Critical thinking/problem solving ability,…

Do you mean to say that being able to think in abstractions or keep a lot of state knowledge in short-term memory are skills that cannot be learned? So where did we acquire these skills, if not by learning?

Re: The Programming Talent Myth (2015)

#18

Post by chiefalchemist »

EpicEng wrote: post #11

> > The truth is that programming isn't a passion or a talent, it is just a bunch of skills that can be learned. This may be true if your definition of programming is the literal act of writing code / recalling syntax, and learning new tools. Of course, that's not really what programming is. That's the easy part. Programming is about problem solving, code is simply the tool. Critical thinking/problem solving ability,…

+1 Code is simply a tool. And dev tools are even further removed. Git is not problem solving. I'm certainly not going to belittle that skill. I have Git expert envy. However, hiring a problem solver for their experience with nearly irrelevant tools is comical. A red flag, but still comical.

Re: The Programming Talent Myth (2015)

#20

Post by Avshalom »

chiefalchemist wrote: post #16
itamarst wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Critical thinking, logic, empathy, etc. are all skills one can learn . And that's the point.

Yes. Learnable. But problem solving doesn't come easy. Critical thinking is another tough nut to crack.

Is there any particular evidence that working programmers actually have either of those? Or are they just fuzzy-ass words we've made up to convince ourselves there's some hard barrier to the eventual reclassification of programming as "un-skilled labor"?
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