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Python 2 will be replaced with Python 3 in the next RHEL major release

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Re: Python 2 will be replaced with Python 3 in the next RHEL major release

#61

Post by oblio »

mjburgess wrote: post #9
VeejayRampay wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The double standard when it comes to Python is mindblowing. No other language could have gotten away with such ridiculous fragmentation and perf regression for such a long period of time.

They didnt really "get away with it". But as far as Oracle, for example,doing something similar -- yes, open source languages get more of a pass. Being an open community effort gives you a free-pass to make mistakes because you're methodologically sincere. Decisions are made by, and on behalf of, those who use the systems. Having proprietary interests means you're methodologically insincere: mostly, you sell decision…

Also the tech upgrade is free in terms of software license costs. Yes, those are generally dwarfed by time investments for tests, but still.

Re: Python 2 will be replaced with Python 3 in the next RHEL major release

#62

Post by canofmoi »

VeejayRampay wrote: post #5
dajonker wrote: post #3

This is good: - Python 2 support officially ends somewhere in 2020 - most popular packages are now compatible with Python 3 - Python 3.7 performs about as well as 2.7 with future release expected to be better Although it still took way too long, if you consider Python 3.0 was released about 10 years ago.

The double standard when it comes to Python is mindblowing. No other language could have gotten away with such ridiculous fragmentation and perf regression for such a long period of time.

Quite the opposite.

Python had deep problems that could simply not be fixed without BC breaks. The decision was made, and in hindsight it was the correct decision by Guido and other core devs.

Look at PHP, and look what a total cluster of madness the language has become.

Re: Python 2 will be replaced with Python 3 in the next RHEL major release

#63

Post by lightdot »

qiqitori wrote: post #43

> next RHEL major release This links to the release notes for RHEL 7.5, which was released today, and is a minor release (in RHEL terms).

"Python 2 has been deprecated Python 2 will be replaced with Python 3 in the next Red Hat Enterprise Linux (RHEL) major release."

So, deprecated in RHEL 7.5 as a fair warning to everybody and replaced with Python 3 in RHEL 8.

You'd know this if you had actually read the linked release notes you mention. ;)

Re: Python 2 will be replaced with Python 3 in the next RHEL major release

#64

Post by oblio »

canofmoi wrote: post #62
VeejayRampay wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The double standard when it comes to Python is mindblowing. No other language could have gotten away with such ridiculous fragmentation and perf regression for such a long period of time.

Quite the opposite. Python had deep problems that could simply not be fixed without BC breaks. The decision was made, and in hindsight it was the correct decision by Guido and other core devs. Look at PHP, and look what a total cluster of madness the language has become.

I think Python 3 was not brave enough, to be honest, to future proof Python:

* an optional type system without hacks was not introduced (types in comments, really?)

* the GIL was not removed or at least a solid parallelism story was not included, one that would allow Python to use all cores on a system while sharing, if needed, memory

* no true performance improving changes were made; by this I mean stuff that improve performance by an order of magnitude; Python is still way too dynamic and this basically sunk Google's Unladen Swallow and Dropbox's Pyston, at least in terms of worldwide adoption

I say this because I'm a bit worried that long term Python has locked itself into a corner where it will keep getting pushed into as the other languages develop a better developer UX. Python was a bit lucky to catch the ML train but who knows how long this will last. And Go, Kotlin, Typescript, Swift, Julia, Rust even are improving their ergonomics and edging towards Python's core competency.

Re: Python 2 will be replaced with Python 3 in the next RHEL major release

#65

Post by peteretep »

labster wrote: post #34
BjoernKW wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, they didn't really get away with it. Perl isn't as widely used as it used to be. Besides, in spite of the name Perl6 isn't compatible with Perl5 but rather a completely new language.

Perl 6 is a completely new language, but that doesn't mean it's incompatible. Inline::Perl5 provides a rather extensive compatibility layer with Perl 5: https://github.com/niner/Inline-Perl5

By this logic, Perl is also compatible with the many other languages for which there are Inline:: modules.

Re: Python 2 will be replaced with Python 3 in the next RHEL major release

#66

Post by [deleted] »

jnwatson wrote: post #39
VeejayRampay wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The double standard when it comes to Python is mindblowing. No other language could have gotten away with such ridiculous fragmentation and perf regression for such a long period of time.

I guess you haven’t looked at Swift. All 4 major versions are very incompatible.

[deleted]

Re: Python 2 will be replaced with Python 3 in the next RHEL major release

#67

Post by geerlingguy »

evgen wrote: post #49
jhasse wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think ansible is a big one for RHEL though.

Ansible works just fine on python3 for both local and remote actions. You need to explicitly tell it to use python3 at the moment, but this will go away eventually.

There are a couple modules with options that break in a Python 3 environment, but that number is I think in the single digits now. I’m very close to switching all my Ansible masters to 3 finally.

Re: Python 2 will be replaced with Python 3 in the next RHEL major release

#68

Post by oblio »

lunchladydoris wrote: post #21

If this is an issue for you, I would highly recommend that you have a look at virtual environments via tools like virtualenv and conda. That way you'll be able to run all the versions you like.

I tried this a while ago.

I think Conda allows installing different versions of Python (good) but it doesn't play well with Pip (bad)? Last I tried it also bundled dependencies in its own particular way (ugly)? I think it was more geared towards SciPy and NumPy and other scientific development than towards general purpose programming.

Re: Python 2 will be replaced with Python 3 in the next RHEL major release

#69

Post by gray_-_wolf »

ersh wrote: post #25
mkj wrote: post #12

Anyone know if /usr/bin/python will point to python3?

That would be really bad. The new scripts should just use the right #! string

or just use `#!/usr/bin/env python2` (python3) and don't care what is actually on the drive

Re: Python 2 will be replaced with Python 3 in the next RHEL major release

#70

Post by moviuro »

ersh wrote: post #25
mkj wrote: post #12

Anyone know if /usr/bin/python will point to python3?

That would be really bad. The new scripts should just use the right #! string

  #!/usr/bin/env python2
There, fixed it.

Much like `#!/usr/bin/env bash` for bash scripts instead of `#!/bin/bash` (which won't work on many OSes)

https://github.com/search?q=%23%21%2Fusr%2Fbin%2Fenv+python2...

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