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Facebook Can’t Be Fixed, It Needs to Be Broken Up

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Re: Facebook Can’t Be Fixed, It Needs to Be Broken Up

#81

Post by vezycash »

thejerz wrote: post #73
a1a wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Firstly, it is not possible to opt out of facebook. [1] And they do indeed collect private data that we didn't choose to share (shadow accounts, third party website trackers, etc). Facebook have broken "actual laws". There are so many cases were facebook have broken the law. [2] [3] Also, please read up on Fallacy of relative privation ("not as bad as"). [1] https://boingboing.net/2017/11/08/involuntary-profiling.htm…

Regarding [1], it is possible to opt out of facebook: don't visit websites with Facebook like/share buttons. (This website, for example). When you access a website with facebook tracking installed, you are consenting to being tracked.

>don't VISIT websites with Facebook like/share buttons.

So people should know a site uses Facebook share buttons before opening it through Google search. Then, they should keep closing pages until they find the one that don't have share buttons. Then, memorize a list of "safe sites?"

Re: Facebook Can’t Be Fixed, It Needs to Be Broken Up

#82

Post by CaptainZapp »

thejerz wrote: post #73
a1a wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Firstly, it is not possible to opt out of facebook. [1] And they do indeed collect private data that we didn't choose to share (shadow accounts, third party website trackers, etc). Facebook have broken "actual laws". There are so many cases were facebook have broken the law. [2] [3] Also, please read up on Fallacy of relative privation ("not as bad as"). [1] https://boingboing.net/2017/11/08/involuntary-profiling.htm…

Regarding [1], it is possible to opt out of facebook: don't visit websites with Facebook like/share buttons. (This website, for example). When you access a website with facebook tracking installed, you are consenting to being tracked.

  When you access a website with facebook tracking installed, you are consenting to being tracked.
Sorry, but that's just silly. That's about as if I advise you that when you don't like to be tracked by Facebook then don't use the internet.

Re: Facebook Can’t Be Fixed, It Needs to Be Broken Up

#83

Post by colinjoy »

hailk wrote: post #64
colinjoy wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you suggest one can “opt out” of facebook? They profile non-members and encourage users to disclose personal data of non-members by installing apps or helping them to “find my friends” based on sharing such data (e.g. address books). #1 and #2 apply to facebook as well. We might find out about #3.

How do they profile non-members or even people who've either deactivated their accounts or aren't using them? If I don't log in how does invites affect me? All they could possibly have is my phone number and email. Which aren't exactly private information anyway.

https://www.zdnet.com/article/firm-facebooks-shadow-profiles...

Note they‘ve been doing this for a long time (the article is from 2013).

Re: Facebook Can’t Be Fixed, It Needs to Be Broken Up

#84

Post by paxys »

a1a wrote: post #62
paxys wrote: post #45

Broken up into what exactly? If you don't like Facebook don't use it. How about the Senate and the internet outrage machine spend time on companies like Equifax instead, who (1) we literally cannot opt out of, (2) have private data that we didn't choose to share with them, and (3) have broken actual laws but haven't received as much as a slap on the wrist for it.

Firstly, it is not possible to opt out of facebook. [1] And they do indeed collect private data that we didn't choose to share (shadow accounts, third party website trackers, etc). Facebook have broken "actual laws". There are so many cases were facebook have broken the law. [2] [3] Also, please read up on Fallacy of relative privation ("not as bad as"). [1] https://boingboing.net/2017/11/08/involuntary-profiling.htm…

I have read these and many more such articles, and apart from using catchy terms like "shadow profile" none of them have been able to describe how it affects me at all if I don't have a Facebook account. Facebook scanned my friend's contact book which happened to have my name and email on it -- what then?

Re: Facebook Can’t Be Fixed, It Needs to Be Broken Up

#85

Post by exergy »

ILikeConemowk wrote: post #70
paxys wrote: post #45

Broken up into what exactly? If you don't like Facebook don't use it. How about the Senate and the internet outrage machine spend time on companies like Equifax instead, who (1) we literally cannot opt out of, (2) have private data that we didn't choose to share with them, and (3) have broken actual laws but haven't received as much as a slap on the wrist for it.

>How about the Senate and the internet outrage machine spend time on companies like Equifax instead You have not understood what this outrage is about. Trump's campaign didn't use data from the Equifax breach to win the election, so it doesn't matter. No, it also doesn't matter that Obama did the same and boasted about it. He is a visionary, Trump is a baddie. Do you get it? Trump baddie, all other politicians, unles…

Pathetic argument.

How about you go back and look at the Equifax breach threads on HN. There was just as much (and ultimately, just as impotent) outrage there. How about you realize that people can be intelligent enough to get worked up about both incidents?

Also, your second to last sentence is the type of glib, dimwitted and edgelord-y kind of nonchalance that reduces all internet conversation threads to "snarkiest cynic wins". Try harder.

Re: Facebook Can’t Be Fixed, It Needs to Be Broken Up

#86

Post by KozmoNau7 »

doomlaser wrote: post #72
KozmoNau7 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So they're "too big to fail"? If you break of the platforms into smaller separate companies, why would that cede leadership to Chinese companies?

Using the legislative branch to break apart a competitive business into smaller disconnected pieces isn't a failure from internal crisis / overleverage. > why would that cede leadership to Chinese companies? It cedes leadership because the Chinese companies, modeled after the un-splintered US platforms, have more resources, capability to undertake coordinated action, and can take advantage of greater network effects.

There would be consequences, but I doubt they would be that major. Facebook hasn't really contributed anything of value, other than a platform for people to get tracked mercilessly. FB's business model is based on advertising, and advertising is poison to the mind.

But I do think the best solution is very strict privacy regulation, similar to GDPR. The so-called free market has failed to manifest a good solution to privacy issues, mostly because the harm done isn't directly visible and hard to contextualize for most people. But it is very real, and can have massive consequences.

Re: Facebook Can’t Be Fixed, It Needs to Be Broken Up

#87

Post by paxys »

twblalock wrote: post #69

Back in the 90s people thought Microsoft was too dominant, could not be fixed, and needed to be broken up. It turns out they were wrong, because competition from companies and technologies nobody saw coming knocked Microsoft off its pedestal. Few would have predicted the dominance of Facebook back in 2004. And few will predict the next big thing that will break Facebook's dominance. All this talk about the government…

I really don't understand the line of thinking that starts with "Facebook is broken" and immediately goes to "Congress should fix it".

Re: Facebook Can’t Be Fixed, It Needs to Be Broken Up

#88

Post by paxys »

peteretep wrote: post #54
paxys wrote: post #45

Broken up into what exactly? If you don't like Facebook don't use it. How about the Senate and the internet outrage machine spend time on companies like Equifax instead, who (1) we literally cannot opt out of, (2) have private data that we didn't choose to share with them, and (3) have broken actual laws but haven't received as much as a slap on the wrist for it.

> If you don't like Facebook don't use it Fine, I won't. That won't stop society in general being surveilled though, and all the attendant ills of that that the article suggests. Further: more and more apps require me to use Facebook to sign in.

Society is being surveilled regardless of Facebook's existence. The Senators who have been grilling Zuckerberg to protect our privacy are the same ones who vote in favor of state-sponsored spying on citizens every chance they get.

Re: Facebook Can’t Be Fixed, It Needs to Be Broken Up

#89

Post by ILikeConemowk »

exergy wrote: post #85
ILikeConemowk wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>How about the Senate and the internet outrage machine spend time on companies like Equifax instead You have not understood what this outrage is about. Trump's campaign didn't use data from the Equifax breach to win the election, so it doesn't matter. No, it also doesn't matter that Obama did the same and boasted about it. He is a visionary, Trump is a baddie. Do you get it? Trump baddie, all other politicians, unles…

Pathetic argument. How about you go back and look at the Equifax breach threads on HN. There was just as much (and ultimately, just as impotent) outrage there. How about you realize that people can be intelligent enough to get worked up about both incidents? Also, your second to last sentence is the type of glib, dimwitted and edgelord-y kind of nonchalance that reduces all internet conversation threads to "snarkiest…

> Try harder.

I don't really think I have to. You are already trying hard enough to elicit an emotional reaction on my part.

FYI: mine wasn't an argument, it is a sarcastic statement meant to explain why, to some extent, very few people seemed to care about the Equifax debacle and we didn't see this level of outrage. My point still stands.

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