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Credit Card Signatures Are About to Become Extinct in the U.S

nytimes.com

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Re: Credit Card Signatures Are About to Become Extinct in the U.S

#521

Post by lotsofpulp »

skookumchuck wrote: post #62
sleet wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It amazes me that cheques are still used. I'm 36 and I've never issued a cheque, I think I was issued a cheque book with my first account but never used it.

I've been going back to written checks lately because of huge timewasting problems with electronic billpay systems - problems like the bank says they transmitted the money go talk to the vendor. The vendor says they never got it, go talk to the bank. Around and around and around. In the past, I'd wave around the cancelled check and resolve it quickly. With ebanking, it's hours and hours on the phone and sitting in th…

I've never had a problem with Bank of America bill pay in the decade plus of using them. Never had to write a check in my life or have a checkbook. You just put in the name and address of who you want to pay, the amount, and BoA mails a check to them.

Re: Credit Card Signatures Are About to Become Extinct in the U.S

#522

Post by kstrauser »

letsgetphysITal wrote: post #509
kstrauser wrote: post #418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One problem with this is that your credit card isn't technically valid unless it's signed with your actual signature. Piss off the wrong clerk who's having a bad day, and it would be completely within their right to deny the sale (or car or hotel rental).

I understand that, and it's a risk I'm willing to take. I'd rather find out that a person is an ass before I give them my money than after. There's always another store, another car dealer, another hotel, another vehicle rental chain. It's likely that the after-sales service will match, or be worse than, the pre-sales service. I'd rather not give them my money at all than have to fight for recompense after the fact.

I don't think that's a reasonable attitude. Ignoring the signature line, even if common, puts a company at much greater risk of eating any fraud committed with it. If an unsigned stolen credit card is recovered, its owner has a very easy claim against any stores that accepted the thief's signature: "obviously they didn't check the back of the card, now did they?" It feels a little entitled to insist that a merchant who wouldn't accept an unsigned card is a bad vendor giving bad service.

Re: Credit Card Signatures Are About to Become Extinct in the U.S

#523

Post by mindslight »

nolok wrote: post #270
zodiakzz wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I never sign anything the same way twice, and my signature is always just a random scribble. Is that legal? o.O

It is, but it means parent will lose any contractual dispute ever on the signature proof part. Here is how it goes in a dispute. You have A saying B signed a contract, and B saying he didn't. It's A's job to prove he did first, and he indicate there is a signature on there, and it's B's. So now it's B's turn, and he needs to show it isn't his (if he does, then A become accused a making a false, and will need to prove…

It's a bit nonsensical that it should fall on a person to prove the negative (that they didn't sign something), as opposed to the party claiming that an action took place having to substantiate their own assertion. But I can believe this ended up being the precedent based on the "golden rule".

It seems like a pragmatic individual solution to address this would be to sign with an X or line or whatever, and diligently keep a log of everything you sign (perhaps facilitated with a phone app, with a conf code to write next to your signature). Then, when the supposed event isn't in your log, it should be back on the aggressor to prove their case.

Re: Credit Card Signatures Are About to Become Extinct in the U.S

#524

Post by thomasahle »

Amezarak wrote: post #372
thomasahle wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's actually somewhat infantilizing to tip someone, unless they need it to be paid. You would never give a lawyer, consultant or someone else "respected" in society "2 dollars to buy something nice". Tipping is a very in the face sign of inequality and really needs to die (as soon as the inequality is gone of course).

It's interesting that this opinion is shared by pretty much zero servers. Servers (I was one) love tipping because, generally speaking, though there may be ups and downs, you are making tremendously more money than you would be otherwise (in the kitchen, for example) and often tax-free. A lot of complaints about the "awkwardness" of it pop up in threads like this, which just makes me wonder if the increasingly transa…

> Otherwise, many of the comments are about "helping" the servers, who, I assure you, do not want this "help."

I would imagine you are right, in that the servers don't imagine they would earn as much without tips. But what if the choice was between earning as much as they do now (after tax), but predictably every month and without having to suck up to anyone?

Maybe some servers think trying to get extra tips are part of the fun of the job, but I don't see that this is a widespread opinion.

Re: Credit Card Signatures Are About to Become Extinct in the U.S

#525

Post by ascagnel_ »

maxerickson wrote: post #496
anitil wrote: post #495

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this hyperbolic or do they actually add 3% on to your amount? If so that is just disgusting. I can understand it from ticketek or similar, but from a government body?

They are charged with collecting the given amount of tax, not the given amount minus a fee.

Better than my apartment building's utility provider (for water and such) -- any payment, even if you're being so direct as to be foolish by sending cash through the mail, incurs a 7% fee.

Re: Credit Card Signatures Are About to Become Extinct in the U.S

#526

Post by mariatori »

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Re: Credit Card Signatures Are About to Become Extinct in the U.S

#527

Post by letsgetphysITal »

kstrauser wrote: post #522
letsgetphysITal wrote: post #509

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand that, and it's a risk I'm willing to take. I'd rather find out that a person is an ass before I give them my money than after. There's always another store, another car dealer, another hotel, another vehicle rental chain. It's likely that the after-sales service will match, or be worse than, the pre-sales service. I'd rather not give them my money at all than have to fight for recompense after the fact.

I don't think that's a reasonable attitude. Ignoring the signature line, even if common, puts a company at much greater risk of eating any fraud committed with it. If an unsigned stolen credit card is recovered, its owner has a very easy claim against any stores that accepted the thief's signature: "obviously they didn't check the back of the card, now did they?" It feels a little entitled to insist that a merchant w…

An opinion doesn't need to be reasonable. I'm aware it's not the correct way to do things, but it provides me and my money with a little more protection IMHO. No card thief will hand over a card with "Check I.D." written in the signature strip to a clerk, just in case it's one that will ask. If the clerk does as asked, they verify everything is in order. If they process it anyway, it falls back to the remainder of the fraud protections available; heuristic monitoring at the bank / card processor, regularly checking bank statements etc.

One thing I'd like to challenge is that the card isn't valid unless it is signed; Technically the valid signatures for my cards are "Check I.D."; the act of signing makes the card valid, just as if you sign a contract with "Mickey Mouse" you are still contractually bound by its terms. You are treated as assuming the persona of "Mickey Mouse" or "Check I.D." while signing; it's the act that is important.

Just don't tell the card thief that ;)

Re: Credit Card Signatures Are About to Become Extinct in the U.S

#528

Post by arghwhat »

jandrese wrote: post #471
arghwhat wrote: post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The lack of chip and pin pales into insignificance compared to their addiction to paper checks, for example. Paper checks are indeed a silly cost, but NFC provides banks no gain over chip. Chip provides gain over magnet stripe by basically rendering skimmers ineffective, but only basically in that credit card fraud is still a big business. Instead of skimmers, you use trojans or data leaks. Physical credit cards al…

Seems like NFC benefits banks just as much as chips then. That's not nothing.

Yes, chip provides an almost negligible benefit over magnet stripe, and for the bank, NFC provides the exact same benefits as chip.

My point was that NFC provides no benefit over chip.

Re: Credit Card Signatures Are About to Become Extinct in the U.S

#529

Post by lavezzi »

criddell wrote: post #315
jimnotgym wrote: post #240

In the UK cards moved to 'chip and pin' in 2006! Fraud in a 'customer present' scenario is very low at our stores. The last fraud in fact was a foreign card that didn't support chip and pin. I can't believe Visa and MasterCard have not made it mandatory world wide... ...except card fraud lossed are recharged to the merchant so perhaps they don't care? Out of interest there is a special exception for disabled people w…

I'm visiting London this summer (I'm from Texas). Normally, I pay for everything with American Express. Would you recommend I get a different card for London? I wonder if there's a US card that support chip and pin?

Honestly, if you have a Visa/Mastercard with no foreign transaction fees then just use Apple Pay/Samsung Pay. It's almost ubiquitously used in the UK, and would be very rare to find somewhere that didn't take it.

Re: Credit Card Signatures Are About to Become Extinct in the U.S

#530

Post by lavezzi »

notoverthere wrote: post #414
cup-of-tea wrote: post #387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I rarely use chip and pin any more. Contactless is everywhere. The UK is the most advanced in this regard, though.

Is the UK most advanced? In Australia they can pay for anything up to $100 with tap. Over $100, they can still tap, but then need to enter their PIN into the terminal (i.e. no need to insert the card for PIN entry – a tap is sufficient). We don't have that in the UK.

I don't think having a higher limit makes anything more advanced. I'm fine with having a lower limit for cards, and then switching to Apple/Samsung/Google Pay for higher priced transactions.
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