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Sex workers fear violence as US cracks down on online ads: 'Girls will die'

theguardian.com

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Re: Sex workers fear violence as US cracks down on online ads: 'Girls will die'

#41

Post by djsumdog »

Broken_Hippo wrote: post #30
dilap wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it's also just an absurd restriction from a perspective that values individual liberty. "my body, my choice" "consenting adults" -- all that goes out the window when it's sex for cash? it makes no sense.

...all that goes out the window when it's sex for cash? only if it is a private transaction. Making pornography is legal. You are correct, there lies no sense here.

So if you want to legally pay someone for sex, you and the person you're paying have to agree to be on tape, you need to check their ID and make a photo of it[1], you probably need to get them to fill out all the standard compliance forms and you probably only want to do this in California, Florida or one of those other locations that big porn studios flock to because the laws are favorable to their industry and less ambiguous.

..or I guess you could move to Nevada.

[1] If they use a fake ID and are underage, you can still be liable.

Re: Sex workers fear violence as US cracks down on online ads: 'Girls will die'

#42

Post by ihsw2 »

PhasmaFelis wrote: post #28
ihsw2 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Prostitution is abhorrent to the women's rights movement -- it is another tool of oppression. Women are having sex with men whom they otherwise wouldn't have sex with -- we should be removing the need for sex work rather than accommodating it. Sex "for survival," child prostitution, sex trafficking -- none of these go away when the stigma and illegality are removed and if anything it gets worse because clients just a…

> Prostitution is abhorrent to the women's rights movement -- it is another tool of oppression. One of the core tenets of feminism is that women have a right to do what they please with their own bodies. A lot of bad things come out of prostitution. That needs to be addressed and policed. Jailing the women practicing it to survive fixes nothing .

Prostitution destroys the sexual autonomy of women by introducing economic incentives to performing sexual acts, this the opposite of sexual freedom.

Re: Sex workers fear violence as US cracks down on online ads: 'Girls will die'

#43

Post by tree_of_item »

ihsw2 wrote: post #11
coenhyde wrote: post #6

Just legalize it already! It's been proven time and time again across many countries around the world that legalizing and regulating prostitution creates a safer environment for the girls AND the customers.

Prostitution is abhorrent to the women's rights movement -- it is another tool of oppression. Women are having sex with men whom they otherwise wouldn't have sex with -- we should be removing the need for sex work rather than accommodating it. Sex "for survival," child prostitution, sex trafficking -- none of these go away when the stigma and illegality are removed and if anything it gets worse because clients just a…

It's really sad that you're being downvoted. I can't believe so many people here have twisted themselves in to knots claiming prostitution is "empowering" for women. Absolutely incredible.

Re: Sex workers fear violence as US cracks down on online ads: 'Girls will die'

#44

Post by skookumchuck »

elil17 wrote: post #40
jasonkostempski wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lending money?

In ye old days people thought charging interest was a sin right in there with adulatory

And yet people lent money anyway, they just used complex accounting maneuvers to obfuscate it.

Re: Sex workers fear violence as US cracks down on online ads: 'Girls will die'

#45

Post by jzymbaluk »

colinb wrote: post #31
dwighttk wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Trafficking victims? They will be vastly better served by a well regulated workplace. why?

I think the obvious answer is because they could complain to the police if they were under threat. Of course, it being the obvious answer doesn't preclude it being nonsense, so feel free to tell me why I'm wrong.

I think the more obvious answer is that if the market is well-regulated and above-board, there is no need for the shady unregulated black market where kidnapping and human trafficking are things that happen.

Re: Sex workers fear violence as US cracks down on online ads: 'Girls will die'

#46

Post by orthecreedence »

ihsw2 wrote: post #42
PhasmaFelis wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Prostitution is abhorrent to the women's rights movement -- it is another tool of oppression. One of the core tenets of feminism is that women have a right to do what they please with their own bodies. A lot of bad things come out of prostitution. That needs to be addressed and policed. Jailing the women practicing it to survive fixes nothing .

Prostitution destroys the sexual autonomy of women by introducing economic incentives to performing sexual acts, this the opposite of sexual freedom.

So anybody with a job is a slave to economics? Isn't this just capitalism/free markets in general? Seems like you're saying women have more freedom by being told they cannot do something that elevates them economically.

Women are still free to have non-paid sex with whomever they want. But if they choose to make money doing it as well, I believe that is another form of empowerment.

Re: Sex workers fear violence as US cracks down on online ads: 'Girls will die'

#47

Post by pastage »

Notorious_BLT wrote: post #26
ihsw2 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Prostitution is abhorrent to the women's rights movement -- it is another tool of oppression. Women are having sex with men whom they otherwise wouldn't have sex with -- we should be removing the need for sex work rather than accommodating it. Sex "for survival," child prostitution, sex trafficking -- none of these go away when the stigma and illegality are removed and if anything it gets worse because clients just a…

Many people do all kinds of jobs they wouldn't otherwise do for survival. Sex isn't magically different from backbreaking manual labor.

Back breaking manual labor is not legal, or rather you can be forced to pay rather steep fines for doing it. (The definition of the words we use is key here)

Re: Sex workers fear violence as US cracks down on online ads: 'Girls will die'

#48

Post by DanBC »

epicureanideal wrote: post #37
DanBC wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Backpage was taken down because they knowingly facilitated ads for unwilling sex work, sometimes involving children. You wouldn't have SESTA / FOSTA if you didn't have the pathologically terrible Backpage.

Citation? Is this proven to be true or speculation?

A good place to start is this document: https://www.hsgac.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/Backpage%20Report...

You don't have to believe anything in this document. You can follow the links this documents gives to the court cases, and the court cases contain what Backpage themselves were saying.

Re: Sex workers fear violence as US cracks down on online ads: 'Girls will die'

#49

Post by s73v3r_ »

DanBC wrote: post #34
PhasmaFelis wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are plenty of moral hazards around prostitution, and banning it outright makes all of them worse . It makes the women involved criminals and deprives them of legal protection when they're abused. The only reason to make prostitution a crime is if you think prostitutes themselves are committing evil. That is 100% a religious position with no rational support.

How does your comment fit with children being drugged and forced into prostitution? And then adults being drugged and forced into prostitution? And then adults feeding a drug addiction? At which point of this ladder do you start to say "no, this is where we need to make it illegal"?

At the "forced into prostitution" part. Because prostitution itself being legal or not does not encourage the others. Outlawing it has not eliminated those other things; in fact, many say that it has made them worse.

Re: Sex workers fear violence as US cracks down on online ads: 'Girls will die'

#50

Post by ihsw2 »

Notorious_BLT wrote: post #26
ihsw2 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Prostitution is abhorrent to the women's rights movement -- it is another tool of oppression. Women are having sex with men whom they otherwise wouldn't have sex with -- we should be removing the need for sex work rather than accommodating it. Sex "for survival," child prostitution, sex trafficking -- none of these go away when the stigma and illegality are removed and if anything it gets worse because clients just a…

Many people do all kinds of jobs they wouldn't otherwise do for survival. Sex isn't magically different from backbreaking manual labor.

Prostitution trivializes sex by converting it to an activity fueled by capitalist incentives, forcing women to transfer control to her client rather than keeping it in her individual control.

It is definitely different in that consent is removed by economic force rather than physical force.

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