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Who caused the Bay Area’s housing shortage?

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Re: Who caused the Bay Area’s housing shortage?

#61

Post by nontechdude1 »

wjnqx wrote: post #32
nontechdude1 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I totally agree with more housing stock. I am a huge fan of Wieiners bill, except with the exception that some cities should not have an 8 story maximum. He is modeling it after Boston, and I've lived there, and huge complexes near transit stations is not a good thing in small cities with 1 railway station. But do that and keep prop 13 in place, please. We don't need the state to hire a bunch of new tax assessors; it…

How, exactly, is denying the state access to revenue supposed to improve its financial situation? If you want better use of money, you've got to vote for it.

tax assessment would raise money but it would cost money. by costing money some businesses may leave. for example, amgen just put a new plant in RI instead of california.

Re: Who caused the Bay Area’s housing shortage?

#62

Post by jjav »

bluedino wrote: post #45
fricat1ve wrote: post #2

Not one mention of Prop 13? Poor reporting. It's basically the rent control story writ large. Everyone who bought in the 20th century has such an "amazing deal" that they won't give it up unless you a) entice them with a better deal or b) gore their oxen and repeal 13.

I don't get how Prop 13 was ever passed. If you own something that's taxable (like property in CA), shouldn't you have to pay tax on the value of the damn thing? If you're paying tax on the value of your house/land, it only makes sense to pay a tax based on the current value, not the one 30 years ago. Typically your house/land is going to go UP in value, and so do your taxes.

The tax is not based on the current value nor on the value 30 years ago. It is based on a value which goes up 2% every year. The taxes go up every year but in a predictable way, it is damping function on the wild swings of the bubble/crash/repeat housing market.

So it is very easy to see how prop 13 was passed. The real estate tax is one the major yearly budget items for most families. Having it vary wildly and unpredictably year to year is not something most families [who don't earn tech bubble salaries] can handle.

Re: Who caused the Bay Area’s housing shortage?

#63

Post by thebradbain »

crdoconnor wrote: post #36
thebradbain wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

nontechdude1, I think I can blame both tech companies of this current generation for their sins AND people of generations past for theirs, and that includes their exclusionary housing policies. It’s not an either-or situation. Regardless, after the declining baby boomer population finally loses their political influence, millennials will step in and fix the problem themselves —and they will, it’s not like any of us c…

>Regardless, after the declining baby boomer population finally loses their political influence, millennials will step in and fix the problem themselves The millennial children of the 1% will inherit those houses and once the boomers are gone they will find another scapegoat to blame while they try to justify their parasitic streams of rental income. Americans are weirdly susceptible to being divided along identity p…

The thing is though, many, many baby boomers own their homes.

Many, many millennials don’t. Even for the small minority that inherits them, new housing is out of their reach. Studies show millennials, even ones’ whose parents own property, by and large don’t want to live in the same suburb/house they grew up in (though, with the current state of affairs, many still live with their parents).

In any event, even if all of that small minority wanted to stay in their exact house, the rest of the disenfranchised would be so numerous as to overwhelmingly outvote them.

Here’s a very enlightening article to the current plight of the millennial. I recommend setting aside some time to read it today.

https://highline.huffingtonpost.com/articles/en/poor-millenn...

Re: Who caused the Bay Area’s housing shortage?

#64

Post by wjnqx »

nontechdude1 wrote: post #60
wjnqx wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If housing is only for people who've already been in a place, why do we allow children? Your argument is patently absurd. Especially in a growing state like California, accommodating newcomers is good if not necessary. I was born here, and I want to live in a place that welcomes outsiders and is affordable for all who want to live here. Don't you see you're just the beneficiary of a pyramid scheme? A tax raise is not…

i don't want california to grow. the traffic is too bad and people are less happy. in fact, i've been cheering trump deporting all 3 million illegal immigrants here because it's a legal way to alleviate the housing crisis. CA was an environmental gem and still is to an extent. i don't want to invite the whole world here. i dont want immigrants, rich and poor, coming here and forcing out people who were born here. i b…

>the traffic is too bad >CA was an environmental gem and still is to an extent

If the traffic is bad, vote to build public transit. Germany and Japan are almost identical to California in size and both have preserved most of their natural beauty and have comparatively few problems with congestion. They do this by investing in rail, because it takes cars off the road and increases physical and economic mobility.

>i've been cheering trump deporting all 3 million illegal immigrants

I see no reason to kick people out who want a shot at the American Dream, and whom Americans like you and I have invited into this country with our insatiable desire for cheap labor, food, and construction. Instead we could let them legalize (not even necessarily become citizens, though I'd like to see that) and build housing and other infrastructure to accommodate them while growing our economy and tax base. That has been a proven success in this country for the last several hundred years.

>i dont want immigrants, rich and poor, coming here and forcing out people who were born here.

And yet, by continuing to support Prop 13 and other policies that reduce the housing supply and place an undue burden on those who wish to purchase housing, you are forcing people like me — who were born in this state — to leave.

>i believe there are too many people here

There aren't too many people here. There's too little housing at too low a density with too little public infrastructure. All of those problems are solvable — we just need to gather the political will to make investments for the continued prosperity of our state. We need to act like grown-ups living in a society: we must pay our taxes, elect responsible leaders, help those less fortunate than us, and fight for our collective interest.

Or are we just going to scapegoat the most vulnerable, dodge paying our fair share of taxes on our ever-appreciating assets, kick the ladder out beneath us, and cower behind walls? Most in my generation seem sick of this free-for-all past generations have created. I want a society where we do our share, help those less fortunate, restore civil society, embrace community support structures, and give everyone a shot at a happy existence. That's what I'll be fighting for. What about you?

Re: Who caused the Bay Area’s housing shortage?

#65

Post by wjnqx »

nontechdude1 wrote: post #61
wjnqx wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How, exactly, is denying the state access to revenue supposed to improve its financial situation? If you want better use of money, you've got to vote for it.

tax assessment would raise money but it would cost money. by costing money some businesses may leave. for example, amgen just put a new plant in RI instead of california.

Businesses are also going to leave when they have to pay workers several times what they would in other regions because of our insane housing prices.

I don't understand how you're supposed to get a financially healthy state when it's starved of funds compared to states like MA that have reasonable and equitable property tax laws.

Re: Who caused the Bay Area’s housing shortage?

#66

Post by nontechdude1 »

wjnqx wrote: post #64
nontechdude1 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i don't want california to grow. the traffic is too bad and people are less happy. in fact, i've been cheering trump deporting all 3 million illegal immigrants here because it's a legal way to alleviate the housing crisis. CA was an environmental gem and still is to an extent. i don't want to invite the whole world here. i dont want immigrants, rich and poor, coming here and forcing out people who were born here. i b…

>the traffic is too bad >CA was an environmental gem and still is to an extent If the traffic is bad, vote to build public transit. Germany and Japan are almost identical to California in size and both have preserved most of their natural beauty and have comparatively few problems with congestion. They do this by investing in rail, because it takes cars off the road and increases physical and economic mobility. >i've…

There are cities in the US with housing at $20/square foot. There is plenty of space for people who can't afford to live here.

That is literally 100 times cheaper than the most expensive real estate in CA.

Why won't Google put some satellite offices in York, PA? York, PA isn't 100 times worse than Atherton.

Most people in CA feel the same way I do and our voices matter. There are big forces at play: third-world illegal immigration, third-world legal immigration, tech's reluctance to spread out across America, driving up costs for all of us natives. Rather than lower the value of housing here by overbuilding, I'd rather stand up for myself and eliminate those negative forces. In case you didn't know, being nativist is in vogue these days. I'm not the only one! And I'm happy and unashamed to vote this way.

Vancouver did something like this, rather than overbuild. It's not racist and it's not immoral. It's just making your voice heard.

Re: Who caused the Bay Area’s housing shortage?

#67

Post by fricat1ve »

nontechdude1 wrote: post #66
wjnqx wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>the traffic is too bad >CA was an environmental gem and still is to an extent If the traffic is bad, vote to build public transit. Germany and Japan are almost identical to California in size and both have preserved most of their natural beauty and have comparatively few problems with congestion. They do this by investing in rail, because it takes cars off the road and increases physical and economic mobility. >i've…

There are cities in the US with housing at $20/square foot. There is plenty of space for people who can't afford to live here. That is literally 100 times cheaper than the most expensive real estate in CA. Why won't Google put some satellite offices in York, PA? York, PA isn't 100 times worse than Atherton. Most people in CA feel the same way I do and our voices matter. There are big forces at play: third-world illeg…

Then allow prop 13 to stay but only for a primary residence. Maybe even limit it to native born citizens if you want. The benefit should definitely not be available to landlords or foreign buyers.

The current situation is bad enough that it's actually driving away people who were born here and have regular jobs, and causing a lot of the traffic problems you mention by increasing commuting.

Re: Who caused the Bay Area’s housing shortage?

#68

Post by wjnqx »

nontechdude1 wrote: post #66
wjnqx wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>the traffic is too bad >CA was an environmental gem and still is to an extent If the traffic is bad, vote to build public transit. Germany and Japan are almost identical to California in size and both have preserved most of their natural beauty and have comparatively few problems with congestion. They do this by investing in rail, because it takes cars off the road and increases physical and economic mobility. >i've…

There are cities in the US with housing at $20/square foot. There is plenty of space for people who can't afford to live here. That is literally 100 times cheaper than the most expensive real estate in CA. Why won't Google put some satellite offices in York, PA? York, PA isn't 100 times worse than Atherton. Most people in CA feel the same way I do and our voices matter. There are big forces at play: third-world illeg…

The technology-based economy extracts value from the rapid information exchange that takes place in cities full of highly-educated people. That doesn't exist in York, PA. Google et al. know that if they moved, their rate of innovation would falter, along with their revenue.

>Most people in CA feel the same way

What? Citation?

>being nativist is in vogue these days

You're not a nativist. If you were, you'd want a place for people like me who were born here. Instead, you're more than willing to kick us out for the sake of your own financial well-being. You're just a selfish beneficiary of the pyramid scheme that is the American housing market.

Re: Who caused the Bay Area’s housing shortage?

#69

Post by nontechdude1 »

wjnqx wrote: post #68
nontechdude1 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are cities in the US with housing at $20/square foot. There is plenty of space for people who can't afford to live here. That is literally 100 times cheaper than the most expensive real estate in CA. Why won't Google put some satellite offices in York, PA? York, PA isn't 100 times worse than Atherton. Most people in CA feel the same way I do and our voices matter. There are big forces at play: third-world illeg…

The technology-based economy extracts value from the rapid information exchange that takes place in cities full of highly-educated people. That doesn't exist in York, PA. Google et al. know that if they moved, their rate of innovation would falter, along with their revenue. >Most people in CA feel the same way What? Citation? >being nativist is in vogue these days You're not a nativist. If you were, you'd want a plac…

Give me your stock options. You're just a selfish beneficiary of the pyramid scheme that is the US technology industry.

Re: Who caused the Bay Area’s housing shortage?

#70

Post by wjnqx »

nontechdude1 wrote: post #69
wjnqx wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The technology-based economy extracts value from the rapid information exchange that takes place in cities full of highly-educated people. That doesn't exist in York, PA. Google et al. know that if they moved, their rate of innovation would falter, along with their revenue. >Most people in CA feel the same way What? Citation? >being nativist is in vogue these days You're not a nativist. If you were, you'd want a plac…

Give me your stock options. You're just a selfish beneficiary of the pyramid scheme that is the US technology industry.

I'm a UC student on Pell grants. My parents were priced out of owning a home in their metro area.

What is wrong with you? What destroyed your empathy, compassion, and hope?

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