Live data from Hacker News

Uber enters dockless bike wars with Jump acquisition

wsj.com

301–310 of 315 posts

Re: Uber enters dockless bike wars with Jump acquisition

#301
post #7

This is a puzzle to me. Uber faces some critical issues ahead. If they can solve them, the bikes will be a rounding error. If they can't, the bike business won't be enough to save them. Why add the complexity when they could buy or build something later? I especially can't figure out why the Jump CEO would do it. The odds of their work surviving to the 10 year mark seems so small. It reminds me of something like Dodg…

It's a shame, Uber won't work on this nearly as hard as the founders did. Like you said founders delude themselves that buyers will help make their vision a reality. Even Facebook, seemingly the best, most hands off startup buyer, is now consuming WhatsApp and Instagram and moving out the original founders.

But...

From Uber's perspective, they have a lot of cash right now. They are worried about a self driving future where Waymo takes all the rides from them. Drivers are expensive (at least half the ride price), and electric assist bikes removes driver wages from the ride expense. And really what is Uber's big monopoly advantage? Just the 2 sided market, but it's local. With a 1000 drivers + advertising you could compete in a local market with them. Right now they are subsidizing a lot of their rides with the world's largest pool of capital, but eventually their capital will run down. If this is a good business they will get competition.

The shared bike business is capital intensive (buying bikes, building infrastructure) but that capital actually buys you some monopoly moat power. It's a really tough business for a startup to be in, but a pretty good fit for a big company. Uber could also do some cool things like a long haul Uber carpool to a bunch of Jump bikes just outside of downtown. Ie. shuttle up 101 to SF, Jump bike to get you through traffic.

For the Jump founder, they have been working on social bikes since 2010, the Uber deal probably includes a cash payout for some of their stock (often after a year). A reasonable guess is that the first 7 years of that were starvation times with a capital intensive business and low capital. At this point the founders might have 20 to 60 percent of the company, with half their stock paid for in cash they might get 10 to 30 million dollars in a year plus the same amount in Uber stock, which is pretty liquid. Plus whatever new grant in Uber stock they get for staying on (it would not be weird if this was another 5-10 million per executive over 5 years). And fundraising is just a massive pain.

From the Jump CEO's perspective:

  Sell
    $10-40 million / founder, almost certain payout
    Never fundraise again
    Lose company (everyone pretends, but that's what happened)
    Still get to run company for a few years
    Slowly watch your good culture be consumed by Uber's bad culture.

  Compete
    Compete with
       - the 3 electric scooter startups that have launched in SF in last 2 weeks  
       - Uber and Lyft
       - buses
       - Go bikes
       - self owned bikes and ebikes
       - driving personal cars     
    2-7 years of hard work before cash, but then more money
    Go before Board of Supervisors meetings to explain your plan for fishing bikes out of the bay
    Keep company and autonomy
    Make vision a reality
The world loses a lot when great startups like this don't compete, but it's understandable that founders sell.

Re: Uber enters dockless bike wars with Jump acquisition

#302
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seattle? Portland? Minneapolis/St. Paul? You might consider bicycling while you travel more. In Seattle alone, OFO, LimeBike, and Spin are all competing. American bicycle infrastructure is behind, but it exists. I don't own a car. I get around those cities on bike without issue. It's as fast or faster than a car in many cases and I'm peddling the old fashioned way (with legs).

Regarding Seattle and Portland, while it's true there are bike share programs, I don't see them used very often. The few who are using the bikes are either tourists (minority) or the homeless on stolen bikes. Additionally, just about half the limebikes that I see are abandoned under bridges or broken and unusable. Portland itself is a very bikeable city and a lot of time/energy is spent to improve and grow this infra…

If you live on the Burke Gilman trail, biking in Seattle can be pretty good. And they even have a bike lane over 520 now for those hardcore Microsoft bike commuters.

Re: Uber enters dockless bike wars with Jump acquisition

#303
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seattle? Portland? Minneapolis/St. Paul? You might consider bicycling while you travel more. In Seattle alone, OFO, LimeBike, and Spin are all competing. American bicycle infrastructure is behind, but it exists. I don't own a car. I get around those cities on bike without issue. It's as fast or faster than a car in many cases and I'm peddling the old fashioned way (with legs).

Minneapolis? As someone who commuted via bike "before it was cool" in Minneapolis I want to ask what you're smoking :) The density simply isn't there, and the infrastructure is pretty horrible aside from some exceedingly small areas of the city proper, and of course the amazing bike paths (which typically are not useful for anything other than leisure). If that's what you consider a high bar for "bike infrastructure"…

I think your experience in the Netherlands is coloring your opinion a bit. Minneapolis is consistently ranked one of the best cities for biking in the US.

Re: Uber enters dockless bike wars with Jump acquisition

#304
post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you catch the part where the city council member that wanted to bail out Pronto was an investor in Pronto? Fun times.

Indeed. Bike share schemes don't need to be publicly funded if run properly. Citi Bike has been a huge success in NYC without taking a dime from taxpayers. Perhaps an ebike system would have been more economically viable in a hilly city like Seattle.

LimeBike is rolling them out so we will see!

Re: Uber enters dockless bike wars with Jump acquisition

#305
post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm an avid biker, and I also make heavy use of my city's shared bike program. I go more miles on my own bikes, but I ride shared bikes more often. I think you're overlooking many significant use cases for shared bikes. Here's a few: - It's well below freezing out and you just want to quickly get from your apartment to the train station, drop the bike off and forget about it. - You won't be returning to that station…

I’m in Sydney. Those are pretty minor use cases compared to the sheer nuisance of dockless bikes. No helmets, no seats, bent wheels. Left in the middle of side walks. Left on other people’s property. In trees. The people who typically use them are casual bikers too, so they use the side walk instead of the roads. No idea about the below freezing stuff.

Yea I’ll admit I’m skeptical of dockless bikes as well. We have docks and since there’s basically always one within half a mile or (usually much) less, it works perfectly fine imo.

Maybe dockless would be nice on a beach with a boardwalk, but in a city? Where are they going to go? And I have a hard time imagining anywhere with a typical not NYC or main downtown area population density will keep them moving enough. I’m happy to be proven wrong though.

Re: Uber enters dockless bike wars with Jump acquisition

#306
post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Dockless bikes are an appropriation of public spaces by private companies and need to stop. I'll support this, as soon as we reclaim the millions of square feet of private space appropriated by curbside parking. This would free up enough space for everyone, and their extended families to park their bikes. If every block in my neighborhood has room for free parking for ~40 cars, then surely we could reclaim a few of…

The roads normally belong to the state.

I'm not talking about freeways - I'm talking about city streets.

Re: Uber enters dockless bike wars with Jump acquisition

#307
post #294
post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Dockless bikes are an appropriation of public spaces by private companies and need to stop. I'll support this, as soon as we reclaim the millions of square feet of private space appropriated by curbside parking. This would free up enough space for everyone, and their extended families to park their bikes. If every block in my neighborhood has room for free parking for ~40 cars, then surely we could reclaim a few of…

What you're describing is re-purposes car parking spaces as locations for docking stations.

The current situation with docking station is that they are ~10 blocks apart from each other.

There should be a parking spot for bicycles on every single block. Just like we have 40 spots to park cars on every block.

Re: Uber enters dockless bike wars with Jump acquisition

#308
post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand biking in Chicago or Minneapolis. What do you do when it rains, or snows, which is like 2/3 of the year? And after that it's 95 degrees and 98% humidity. There are probably no more than 30 to 45 days a year where it's really decent biking weather.

Well, in Chicago you pretty much bike on the good days. The infrastructure isn't great (like noted by OP in his followup to me) - but the density of the city makes it pretty workable if not entirely enjoyable. You can typically get around on bike on the good weather days faster than most other forms of transit - largely because you're only a few miles from anywhere you need to be. So in Chicago the typical bicycle co…

> Public transit in Minneapolis is basically for poor folks or those with DUIs

What? No.

I'm in Minneapolis. I live downtown. I find using the bus and light rail far more convenient and easy then a car. Let alone the baggage a car brings such as maintenance, insurance, upfront costs, and not to mention parking.

Re: Uber enters dockless bike wars with Jump acquisition

#309
post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I'm with you on the helmet laws. I'm not ok with the selective enforcement. If they cause more harm than good we should repeal the law. When I took the MSF class there was talk of repealing the motorcycle helmet law for similar reasons. Not sure how I feel about that. It apparently came with an automatic DNR provision if you crash without a helmet.

And presumably automatic permission for reuse of organs

There are potential religious conflicts there so I assume it would defer to whatever the drivers license says. Not really sure. It seems strange to me that we will just let people die because of the way they injured themselves, seems arbitrary.

Re: Uber enters dockless bike wars with Jump acquisition

#310
post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The roads normally belong to the state.

I'm not talking about freeways - I'm talking about city streets.

I meant in general terms not the specific US political terms - the roads in the US citys are not private roads are they?
Post reply on HN