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Who caused the Bay Area’s housing shortage?

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Re: Who caused the Bay Area’s housing shortage?

#31

Post by wjnqx »

nontechdude1 wrote: post #22
bradlys wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On top of this, you can continue to give large multi-million dollar estates down indefinitely to your children without the estates being reassessed for tax purposes. That was an expansion of prop 13 which I definitely think shouldn't exist. So many people I have met here get to live here because of these ridiculous laws that basically keep the 1% the 1%. It props up real estate prices and only benefits wealthy indivi…

I feel like your whole perspective is skewed towards you, as a newcomer, feeling entitled to everything here. Your industry (tech) is causing values to skyrocket. Which is fine, but not everyone in a single area is going to work in one industry. If a bunch of wealthy people want to live in one place (this happens in CA a lot) why should your taxes go up punitively? That's why prop 13 was put in place. It really puts…

If housing is only for people who've already been in a place, why do we allow children? Your argument is patently absurd. Especially in a growing state like California, accommodating newcomers is good if not necessary. I was born here, and I want to live in a place that welcomes outsiders and is affordable for all who want to live here. Don't you see you're just the beneficiary of a pyramid scheme?

A tax raise is not punitive if your taxes were not commensurate with what you need to contribute to society in the first place. A homeowner in California for the past 30 years has paid drastically less than what a homeowner in basically any other place would have, while probably getting more in terms of public services.

You got lucky. You got in early and now you get to benefit from the massive unfairness of Prop 13. I will also graduate in-state from a UC. What will I inherit? Will I ever be able to afford a decent home in the metro area I grew up in? I doubt it — and even if I did, how much less would the guy next door be paying than me every year?

[Edit: grammar]

Re: Who caused the Bay Area’s housing shortage?

#32

Post by wjnqx »

nontechdude1 wrote: post #27
entee wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are a number of ways that property taxes could be handled so as to not force people out of their homes as property values fluctuate. Just one example, there could be a maximum on percentage of income that can be charged as property tax. Pegging those taxes to prices that are literally decades old seems like the least efficient and most distortionary method. Nevermind that handing that benefit down generation af…

I totally agree with more housing stock. I am a huge fan of Wieiners bill, except with the exception that some cities should not have an 8 story maximum. He is modeling it after Boston, and I've lived there, and huge complexes near transit stations is not a good thing in small cities with 1 railway station. But do that and keep prop 13 in place, please. We don't need the state to hire a bunch of new tax assessors; it…

How, exactly, is denying the state access to revenue supposed to improve its financial situation? If you want better use of money, you've got to vote for it.

Re: Who caused the Bay Area’s housing shortage?

#33

Post by thebradbain »

nontechdude1 wrote: post #30
thebradbain wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

nontechdude1, I think I can blame both tech companies of this current generation for their sins AND people of generations past for theirs, and that includes their exclusionary housing policies. It’s not an either-or situation. Regardless, after the declining baby boomer population finally loses their political influence, millennials will step in and fix the problem themselves —and they will, it’s not like any of us c…

sorry, i deleted that comment because it was..a little too much. i would caution anyone with the resources to purchase a home to be cautious right now. there are too many political unknowns that could easily make it a poor financial choice. or you can go all-in knowing that if you become underwater, you can just walk away (CA is a non-recourse state) as long as you don't have a HELOC on the property.

Family is in real estate— we would never purchase a property in San Francisco this late in the game (and I love that city!). The writing’s on the wall: that same law homeowners voted for to artificially lower their tax burden will also be the law that sends California into a bona fide housing crisis that makes the 2008 subprime mortgage crisis look like peanuts in comparison. It’s artificial, unsustainable, and shows a complete disregard for how markets work.

The current, very real housing shortages and homeless epidemic is just the tip of the iceberg.

Re: Who caused the Bay Area’s housing shortage?

#34

Post by Shivetya »

bradlys wrote: post #19
fricat1ve wrote: post #2

Not one mention of Prop 13? Poor reporting. It's basically the rent control story writ large. Everyone who bought in the 20th century has such an "amazing deal" that they won't give it up unless you a) entice them with a better deal or b) gore their oxen and repeal 13.

On top of this, you can continue to give large multi-million dollar estates down indefinitely to your children without the estates being reassessed for tax purposes. That was an expansion of prop 13 which I definitely think shouldn't exist. So many people I have met here get to live here because of these ridiculous laws that basically keep the 1% the 1%. It props up real estate prices and only benefits wealthy indivi…

so basically rent control for homeowners, or better put tax control. if anything the law needs to be fixed but before doing so there needs to be protection put in place so that jurisdictions cannot force people out by having punitive real estate tax rates. This usually can be done with a large deduction for the primary home. In my case; I am not in California; my home is worth X. Well the deduction in place drops its stated value by 40k which lessens any taxation.

We must understand that California was very different when laws like this were passed, they were abhorrent to a growing government. As we can see now they lost that fight and you can be sure the politicians would love prop 13 to be gone but before doing so something needs to be in place

Re: Who caused the Bay Area’s housing shortage?

#36

Post by crdoconnor »

thebradbain wrote: post #28
nontechdude1 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like your whole perspective is skewed towards you, as a newcomer, feeling entitled to everything here. Your industry (tech) is causing values to skyrocket. Which is fine, but not everyone in a single area is going to work in one industry. If a bunch of wealthy people want to live in one place (this happens in CA a lot) why should your taxes go up punitively? That's why prop 13 was put in place. It really puts…

nontechdude1, I think I can blame both tech companies of this current generation for their sins AND people of generations past for theirs, and that includes their exclusionary housing policies. It’s not an either-or situation. Regardless, after the declining baby boomer population finally loses their political influence, millennials will step in and fix the problem themselves —and they will, it’s not like any of us c…

>Regardless, after the declining baby boomer population finally loses their political influence, millennials will step in and fix the problem themselves

The millennial children of the 1% will inherit those houses and once the boomers are gone they will find another scapegoat to blame while they try to justify their parasitic streams of rental income.

Americans are weirdly susceptible to being divided along identity politics lines.

The whole "boomer vs. millenial" thing is just the 1% engaging in a game of scapegoat, divide and rule. By blaming your mom, you're helping them.

Re: Who caused the Bay Area’s housing shortage?

#38

Post by jessaustin »

roflchoppa wrote: post #4

Ah, I don’t mind the new housing developments, what does become frustrating is having to deal with all the traffic generated by the kids going to school in the morning. Are there alternatives to mandatory school buses, any research into this?

Buses are better than each precious child being separately driven by an idle parent.

Re: Who caused the Bay Area’s housing shortage?

#39

Post by bradleyjg »

nontechdude1 wrote: post #22
bradlys wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On top of this, you can continue to give large multi-million dollar estates down indefinitely to your children without the estates being reassessed for tax purposes. That was an expansion of prop 13 which I definitely think shouldn't exist. So many people I have met here get to live here because of these ridiculous laws that basically keep the 1% the 1%. It props up real estate prices and only benefits wealthy indivi…

I feel like your whole perspective is skewed towards you, as a newcomer, feeling entitled to everything here. Your industry (tech) is causing values to skyrocket. Which is fine, but not everyone in a single area is going to work in one industry. If a bunch of wealthy people want to live in one place (this happens in CA a lot) why should your taxes go up punitively? That's why prop 13 was put in place. It really puts…

The newcomers themselves and their parents by and large contributed to other parts of the country. You, as a citizen of the US, are allowed to move there and take advantage of that infrastructure. The fundamental unit of analysis is the nation-state.

And as it happens the bay area turned out to be too important as an engine of growth for the nation-state as a whole to allow nostalgia about pseudo-Victorian homes filled with hippies or greed for unearned wealth to be the tail that wags the dog. The incumbent power structures there, which represents narrow local interests can and should be overruled by higher levels of government for the good of the state and country.

Re: Who caused the Bay Area’s housing shortage?

#40

Post by crdoconnor »

cobookman wrote: post #29
bradlys wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On top of this, you can continue to give large multi-million dollar estates down indefinitely to your children without the estates being reassessed for tax purposes. That was an expansion of prop 13 which I definitely think shouldn't exist. So many people I have met here get to live here because of these ridiculous laws that basically keep the 1% the 1%. It props up real estate prices and only benefits wealthy indivi…

Just wait for the economy to crash. You'll have the CA gov looking for new income streams. It'll either be modify prop 13, modify the pension plan, or declare bankruptcy.

>It'll either be modify prop 13, modify the pension plan, or declare bankruptcy.

The outcome of which will be determined by which side gains the upper hand in this class war.

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