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Time for third-party data brokers to emerge from the shadows?

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Re: Time for third-party data brokers to emerge from the shadows?

#31
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I respectfully disagree with you. Most people (in the US) do not care. I used to work for an adtech company which engaged with all sorts of third party vendors (like Axciom, BlueKai, etc) and every time I would explain my job to most friends or strangers, people often rightly assumed that shady data dealing is what was going on behind ads and services like Facebook and seemed not to care. There has been little appeti…

> people often rightly assumed that shady data dealing is what was going on behind ads and services like Facebook and seemed not to care. So people don't realize the full extent of the evil in which you were complicit? Sleep well.

If you work in the software industry there is a huge probability adtech dollars somewhere upstream are contributing to your income.

Re: Time for third-party data brokers to emerge from the shadows?

#32
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I respectfully disagree with you. Most people (in the US) do not care. I used to work for an adtech company which engaged with all sorts of third party vendors (like Axciom, BlueKai, etc) and every time I would explain my job to most friends or strangers, people often rightly assumed that shady data dealing is what was going on behind ads and services like Facebook and seemed not to care. There has been little appeti…

Most people in the US may not care, but that's because they simply do not understand how it will (or already is) affect them. The average person thinks that, at worst, they'll just see ads that are more intelligent or targeted. Who cares, right? The do NOT realize that these troves of data are going to be used to someday deny them health insurance, get them fired or not hired for some job, get screwed in job pay and…

Perhaps Americans are just confident that if these things start happening there will be ample opportunity to implement legislative fixes.

I mean c'mon...."Refused entry into establishments"? Unless the Civil Rights Act of 1964 somehow gets repealed I don't see this as very likely.

Re: Time for third-party data brokers to emerge from the shadows?

#33
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I respectfully disagree with you. Most people (in the US) do not care. I used to work for an adtech company which engaged with all sorts of third party vendors (like Axciom, BlueKai, etc) and every time I would explain my job to most friends or strangers, people often rightly assumed that shady data dealing is what was going on behind ads and services like Facebook and seemed not to care. There has been little appeti…

Most people in the US may not care, but that's because they simply do not understand how it will (or already is) affect them. The average person thinks that, at worst, they'll just see ads that are more intelligent or targeted. Who cares, right? The do NOT realize that these troves of data are going to be used to someday deny them health insurance, get them fired or not hired for some job, get screwed in job pay and…

> they simply do not understand [...] The average person thinks that [...] The do NOT realize

This reeks of elitism. I'm not sure it's clear what the average person thinks and one could hope that the average person is smarter than this and wouldn't guess what the average person thinks. To not only guess what we, the average, think but to also so confidently predict the future to me demonstrates below average reasoning.

Re: Time for third-party data brokers to emerge from the shadows?

#35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people in the US may not care, but that's because they simply do not understand how it will (or already is) affect them. The average person thinks that, at worst, they'll just see ads that are more intelligent or targeted. Who cares, right? The do NOT realize that these troves of data are going to be used to someday deny them health insurance, get them fired or not hired for some job, get screwed in job pay and…

Perhaps Americans are just confident that if these things start happening there will be ample opportunity to implement legislative fixes. I mean c'mon...."Refused entry into establishments"? Unless the Civil Rights Act of 1964 somehow gets repealed I don't see this as very likely.

Legislative fixes would need to be implemented by the Congress — an institution trusted by only about 25% of Americans [1]. So I don't think it's fair to say that there is widespread confidence that this can be fixed with legislation.

[1] https://www.npr.org/2018/01/17/578422668/heres-just-how-litt...

Re: Time for third-party data brokers to emerge from the shadows?

#36

The fundamental issue is that the average person in the United States and Austrailia simply don't really care for their online privacy. Offer something free and people will happily sign up and give all sorts of personal information without any hesitation. Offer a loyalty card at a store with discounts, and people will happily sign up for it. Even after the Snowden revelations, not much really happened to the governme…

> This is in contrast to Europe, especially Germany where people in living memory experienced first hand how the government could use your private information to literally cause you and/or your family to be imprisoned, tortured, or even killed.

And we still have a majority who is for gun control. I think part of the reason is how police / state forces are perceived: in Europe people see them as professional so "they're dangerous with data but they're also good at their protecting job". In the US "they're just obese donut eaters who can't do shit to protect you and would not know what to do with data".

You can thank the medias for all the propaganda.

Re: Time for third-party data brokers to emerge from the shadows?

#37
post #7

The fundamental issue is that the average person in the United States and Austrailia simply don't really care for their online privacy. Offer something free and people will happily sign up and give all sorts of personal information without any hesitation. Offer a loyalty card at a store with discounts, and people will happily sign up for it. Even after the Snowden revelations, not much really happened to the governme…

People do care. They have very limited ability to make meaningful changes. But you can look at the national do not call registry in the US, and it's popularity to see that when there are options, people are happy to use them.

In my experience the DNC has been a failure. I get 10+ calls a day. All are obvious scams. The most recent iterations are student loan related (I don't have any) and an urgent warning about my car warranty expiring (I don't have one)

Re: Time for third-party data brokers to emerge from the shadows?

#38
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People do care. They have very limited ability to make meaningful changes. But you can look at the national do not call registry in the US, and it's popularity to see that when there are options, people are happy to use them.

In my experience the DNC has been a failure. I get 10+ calls a day. All are obvious scams. The most recent iterations are student loan related (I don't have any) and an urgent warning about my car warranty expiring (I don't have one)

> In my experience the DNC has been a failure. I get 10+ calls a day. All are obvious scams.

It's kind of expected that calls that are criminal before considering whether there are restrictions on unsolicited commercial calls would not be significantly inhibited by the DNC rule, only legal (but for the rule) telemarketing.

Re: Time for third-party data brokers to emerge from the shadows?

#39

The fundamental issue is that the average person in the United States and Austrailia simply don't really care for their online privacy. Offer something free and people will happily sign up and give all sorts of personal information without any hesitation. Offer a loyalty card at a store with discounts, and people will happily sign up for it. Even after the Snowden revelations, not much really happened to the governme…

> The fundamental issue is that the average person in the United States and Austrailia simply don't really care for their online privacy.

It's in part because it's very hard to grasp - so I don't blame them.

But this is why the burden can't be on the end users. The burden has to be on those that create the tools and set the defaults. Apple's decision to include content blocking on iOS was a good step in the right direction. Having isolation between tabs in firefox is another.

The next logical step is enabling everything by default. Having what amounts to a full "don't track me" setup (The equivalent to a full uBlock origin+ghostery+tab isolation whatever else an "aware" person might do) being the default in any new browser and smartphone would go a long way.

Whatever "nuclear options" exist for those that have them, such as browser vendors, need to be used, quickly. I have very little worries for "breaking the web" or putting a sizable fraction of struggling web sites out of business because nearly every visitor suddenly sees no ads. If your business model was creating content and financing it via showing ad-network ads with third party scripts and cookies for targeting - your business model was never viable and you should find another business model or just shut down.

I'd even go so far as to suggest that mozilla and others should start actively and specifically targeting dark patterns and problematic things on specific web sites. This would be enormously controversial - but just like my browser will show a huge red warning if there is something wrong with a certificate, it should do the same thing to the average user if they click "what's your mexican wrestler name?" on facebook.

Re: Time for third-party data brokers to emerge from the shadows?

#40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my experience the DNC has been a failure. I get 10+ calls a day. All are obvious scams. The most recent iterations are student loan related (I don't have any) and an urgent warning about my car warranty expiring (I don't have one)

> In my experience the DNC has been a failure. I get 10+ calls a day. All are obvious scams. It's kind of expected that calls that are criminal before considering whether there are restrictions on unsolicited commercial calls would not be significantly inhibited by the DNC rule, only legal (but for the rule) telemarketing.

I am mostly shocked that the low quality of calls even exist. Who are the people actually falling for a noisy VoIP call asking for personal information? I've been trolling those calls lately when I have a few minutes just so they can't call someone else.
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