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Credit Card Signatures Are About to Become Extinct in the U.S

nytimes.com

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Re: Credit Card Signatures Are About to Become Extinct in the U.S

#501

Post by artmageddon »

jandrese wrote: post #485
artmageddon wrote: post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> America is so stuck in legacy tech. Nobody checks signatures. The USPS sadly still forces credit card users to have signatures on the back. They don't check signatures against the PIN pad / signed receipts, but the clerk will either yell at you or refuse the transaction if you have "Ask For Drivers License" on the back of the card. This has happened to me on more than one occasion.

You might just have one particularly anal Post Office.

Nope; happened in Boston and NYC. They have signs up at each one specifically saying they want a signed credit card.

Re: Credit Card Signatures Are About to Become Extinct in the U.S

#502

Post by mjcl »

patmcc wrote: post #194
skookumchuck wrote: post #17

It turns out that a signature on a bank check means nothing. Neither does the payer name on the check. Not the amount in cursive. Nor does the check paper. The only things that are checked are the digits of the amount, and the account number. The rest of the check can be complete garbage, and the check will go through and the bank will pay it. Then the banks will blame you, the account holder. I learned this the hard…

>>The only things that are checked are the digits of the amount, and the account number. Ha! Not even that. In the cheque clearing process, about the only thing that ever gets checked (even by automated processes) is the MICR line (account/transit and institution number). Everything else (EVERYTHING ELSE) is just assumed to match whatever the person entered at the ATM/image capture app/teller window. The bank conside…

Yup! I worked for a property management company that was rolling out check scanning (X9 imaging, not ACH/ARC) to 150 locations. In every group that was rolled out there was inevitably at least one person that would scan a batch of checks and enter the amounts really incorrectly.

Re: Credit Card Signatures Are About to Become Extinct in the U.S

#503

Post by stephen_g »

mulmen wrote: post #487
stephen_g wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the "parties not accepting electronic methods" bit is more surprising to people in places with more modern banking systems... In Australia you can hardly buy anything anymore with ordinary cheques (you can still use a bank cheque for a car from a dealer or deposit on a house something, but that's the kind that you go to the bank, pay a fee and they print it out). Hardly any private seller for a car or anythin…

The last motorcycle I bought I had to wait two days to go to a physical branch and get a (free!) cashiers check then go back to the shop to buy the bike. We made the deal on a Saturday and the guy asked for a check and I said "It's 2018, I don't have a checkbook" to which he chuckled but it wasn't clear what I would have used instead. Normally I would just carry cash but I don't make habit of holding on to that much…

With BPay, you have a biller code (six character number) and a reference (which is longer, like 12 characters - usually this is like your customer number with that biller, so it doesn’t change). Generally every bill you get will have those details on them. It’s free which is nice.

For a regular transfer, you have a six digit number that identifies the bank/branch, and an account number (variable length, depends on branch). You just always use this method and your bank checks whether it’s a BSB at the same bank and does an instant transfer, and if not clears it through the central bank. I think batches run at 9am and 5pm every business day for that.

For those kind of payments, they’re bringing in two new things this year - a new real-time clearing system for small interbank transfers (that is, under like $100k or $250k or something - larger payments you have to use a special system called RTGS), and ‘PayID’ where you can have a mobile number for an individual or your Australian Business Number for a company, and I think internally it resolves back to the account number / BSB (I guess like a DNS system for banks).

Re: Credit Card Signatures Are About to Become Extinct in the U.S

#504

Post by mulmen »

stephen_g wrote: post #503
mulmen wrote: post #487

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The last motorcycle I bought I had to wait two days to go to a physical branch and get a (free!) cashiers check then go back to the shop to buy the bike. We made the deal on a Saturday and the guy asked for a check and I said "It's 2018, I don't have a checkbook" to which he chuckled but it wasn't clear what I would have used instead. Normally I would just carry cash but I don't make habit of holding on to that much…

With BPay, you have a biller code (six character number) and a reference (which is longer, like 12 characters - usually this is like your customer number with that biller, so it doesn’t change). Generally every bill you get will have those details on them. It’s free which is nice. For a regular transfer, you have a six digit number that identifies the bank/branch, and an account number (variable length, depends on br…

Sounds like the case of a $5,000.00 motorcycle deal on Saturday afternoon still isn't handled "instantly" in the same way a check would be. At least not until the real-time system arrives.

Re: Credit Card Signatures Are About to Become Extinct in the U.S

#505

Post by hyperdimension »

Merad wrote: post #66
itakedrugs wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm 36 too but I've issued hundreds of checks... and also issued some indirectly (Bank of America's bill payments issue paper checks to companies when they don't accept electronic payments)

Fair warning, I used to work for the company that makes BofA’s bill pay product, and it can have a mind of its own. Even payments that should always be electronic will sometimes decide to mail checks for reasons that you’ll never a get a good explanation for.

Fiserv?

Re: Credit Card Signatures Are About to Become Extinct in the U.S

#506

Post by com2kid »

dullgiulio wrote: post #239
com2kid wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Around Washington state they ask you at the end how many bags you got. Makes a lot more sense. :) I have also seen stores that put a barcode on the bag and the bag gets scanned just like any other item. That, IMHO, is the best way to go.

Barcode is how it works in Europe. Recently, also smaller bags for groceries are being taxed in many countries as there are compulsory reduction quotas to be fulfilled. It's really important for the environment and frankly, the majority of groceries don't need any bag as they have skin.

> It's really important for the environment and frankly, the majority of groceries don't need any bag as they have skin.

I mainly bag things due to blood leaking out of meat packages. It leaks onto carts, baskets, and other food.

I put an extra bag around my meat, but I see others who don't. And some grocery stores don't have plastic bags available in the meat section, I have to go bag to veggies to get a bag to keep blood from getting everywhere!

Re: Credit Card Signatures Are About to Become Extinct in the U.S

#507

Post by lmm »

nolok wrote: post #470
lmm wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> To do that, B needs to prove that he usually signs a different way, so he provides other signatures everywhere to show it. Since parent signs differently everywhere, he cannot show that he has a regular signature that doesn't match the one on paper. How often does that work? Presumably a fraudster would copy B's signature from a receipt out of their trash or something (a priori they have no way of knowing that B si…

The vast majority of cases where this relevant (99+%) are identity theft, where you got the name / ssn /address through some mail or website or whatever and uses that to contract things on someone else's name. Also, finding differences in signature is much easier and much more advanced / developed than you would think. Even if you copy mine after seeing it or having a model, the places where you slow down your pen et…

> Also, finding differences in signature is much easier and much more advanced / developed than you would think. Even if you copy mine after seeing it or having a model, the places where you slow down your pen etc... Vary compared to me, and that can be detected.

How often is this actually effective/useful?

Re: Credit Card Signatures Are About to Become Extinct in the U.S

#508

Post by tome »

Qub3d wrote: post #466
tome wrote: post #446

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The last fraud in fact was a foreign card that didn't support chip and pin. "The last fraud"? Are frauds so rare that it's meaningful to talk about the last one?!

Last in this case means "previous" or "most recent". Its just ambiguous English.

Oh yes, I understood that. I still can't believe they're so rare that you can talk about the "most recent" one. And how would jimnotgym know? Most puzzling.

Re: Credit Card Signatures Are About to Become Extinct in the U.S

#509

Post by letsgetphysITal »

kstrauser wrote: post #418
letsgetphysITal wrote: post #407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I write "Check I.D.". Merchants have typically been good at asking for some, especially the older ones. Teens and trainees tend to mumble and just process it anyway. The thought process is that my UK drivers license has my picture, full name, and signature. The merchant looks at the ID and sees my photo next to my name, checks it with the name on the card to see if they match, then checks the signature against that o…

One problem with this is that your credit card isn't technically valid unless it's signed with your actual signature. Piss off the wrong clerk who's having a bad day, and it would be completely within their right to deny the sale (or car or hotel rental).

I understand that, and it's a risk I'm willing to take. I'd rather find out that a person is an ass before I give them my money than after. There's always another store, another car dealer, another hotel, another vehicle rental chain. It's likely that the after-sales service will match, or be worse than, the pre-sales service. I'd rather not give them my money at all than have to fight for recompense after the fact.

Re: Credit Card Signatures Are About to Become Extinct in the U.S

#510

Post by bruceboughton »

kozhevnikov wrote: post #321
criddell wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm visiting London this summer (I'm from Texas). Normally, I pay for everything with American Express. Would you recommend I get a different card for London? I wonder if there's a US card that support chip and pin?

A lot of businesses in the UK/Europe do not accept American Express due to higher fees. You would be better off getting a different card preferably that supports contactless payments so you could use it on the tube and buses instead of an Oyster card (remember to touch it on the way out as well). https://tfl.gov.uk/fares-and-payments/contactless

Most businesses now do support Amex -- there's been a major shift in the last few years.
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