In fighting homeless camp, Irvine's Asians win, but at a cost • Hacker News Board

Re: In fighting homeless camp, Irvine's Asians win, but at a cost

#91

Post by YOrlandoLO » Mon, Apr 09, 2018, 6:36 PM UTC

TomK32 wrote: post #43

mirkules wrote: post #24

This really is a regional problem. I live around the area, near the beautiful Santa Ana trail which connects two counties to the ocean. A few months ago, I rode down the 40-mile stretch for the first time in a long time, and I was absolutely shocked to see the extent of the tent city near the Anaheim Angels stadium. The people living there were living on hard times, it felt post-apocalyptic in some sense. The tent ar…

> I don't know what the answer is, or how to deal with it. The answer is to give them a home, help to get back into a regular life and make sure they don't run into the same issues again that led to their homelessness. Finland has managed to achieve this, why can't the rest of the western world follow?

> The answer is to give them a home

How condescending can you be? I guess that's solved!?

There are multiple 'types' of homeless, that I have encountered across multiple states. There is some overlap. Most of the homeless DO NOT WANT to have the responsibility (cognitive or financial) of a home, bills, etc. They believe that they are happy making do and tend to congregate in the same municipal areas. What do you think happens to the least intelligent of a society? Honestly, this population will only grow. On the other side, people who want help get it, as every camp and clearout includes copious social workers. You need 0 resources to get a medical and dental insurance in Washington State. Social services are offered everywhere the homeless gather, but unsurprisingly they don't usually take it.

One of the most common 'types' is the homesteader. The kind of people who live out in the desert in trailers have moved to more populous, relatively comfortable areas to live as they like due to the purchase/development of the areas they would normally squat on. This type of nomad living isn't strictly a mental illness, but it's also not an issue of housing.

The second 'type' is the addict. Now this isn't always drugs, although it almost always devolves into that. Some people are hoarders (an addiction) or pet hoarders, or whatever and slowly but surely are stripped of everything they have. Then it tends to turn to a replacement like drugs. These are also the most common criminal element. Stealing bikes, hoses, whatever to feed their various addictions and to give them purpose. Being homeless is boring.

The third type is the more sympathetic hard case. These are the people that are turned away from shelters, but won't let go of the dog they keep, which is all that's left from their previous life. They tend to accept help, but there's a shortage for even this sliver.

For now, making homelessness illegal in incorporated counties, without enrollment and participation in rehabilitation programs, this will continue.

Re: In fighting homeless camp, Irvine's Asians win, but at a cost

#92

Post by olliej » Tue, Apr 10, 2018, 2:04 AM UTC

stmfreak wrote: post #69

TomK32 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't know what the answer is, or how to deal with it. The answer is to give them a home, help to get back into a regular life and make sure they don't run into the same issues again that led to their homelessness. Finland has managed to achieve this, why can't the rest of the western world follow?

Most of these people had homes and jobs once, but prefer drugs and alcohol over the rules and expectations of those who provided said homes and jobs. Homelessness is not a sudden condition, it is the result of thousands of choices to indulge in selfish behavior. Inflicting family oriented communities with shelters for these people is the wrong approach. We need to provided a path out of homelessness that enforces sob…

For instance it could be the result of ptsd from being in Iraq. Or Vietnam. Or Afghanistan. Where is the support for veterans?

It could be mental health - if you can’t afford healthcare you may not be able keep a job. Once you don’t have a job you very quickly end up homeless. Now you don’t have a home, how do you possibly get treatment or a job? Eventually you are arrested and go to jail, where you can get treatment but now you’re an excon so can’t get a job so end up homeless without treatment.

You were kicked out of your home when you came out as a teenager - you’re homeless, may not have even finished school, and many jobs these days have minimum age rules. So now you’re stuck unless you’re one of the lucky few who manages to get support and a home before drugs and alcohol become the only “escape”

Same as above but you’re a kid abused by a family member, foster family, ...

Note how all of these paths eventually put you in a position where you cannot escape homelessness. You cannot get healthcare or a job without somewhere to live unless you’re very lucky.

So instead you end up cycling through prison, which in just a small amount of time costs much more than covering the cost of housing in the first place.

Re: In fighting homeless camp, Irvine's Asians win, but at a cost

#93

Post by praha14 » Tue, Apr 10, 2018, 8:26 AM UTC

TomK32 wrote: post #43

mirkules wrote: post #24

This really is a regional problem. I live around the area, near the beautiful Santa Ana trail which connects two counties to the ocean. A few months ago, I rode down the 40-mile stretch for the first time in a long time, and I was absolutely shocked to see the extent of the tent city near the Anaheim Angels stadium. The people living there were living on hard times, it felt post-apocalyptic in some sense. The tent ar…

> I don't know what the answer is, or how to deal with it. The answer is to give them a home, help to get back into a regular life and make sure they don't run into the same issues again that led to their homelessness. Finland has managed to achieve this, why can't the rest of the western world follow?

Isn't Finland almost entirely white whereas California is predominantly Hispanic? That seems like an obvious first place to look. It could be the case that the distribution of time-preference, social trust, IQ, or any of the other factors that correlate with homelessness differs among ethnicities.

Re: In fighting homeless camp, Irvine's Asians win, but at a cost

#94

Post by m0llusk » Tue, Apr 10, 2018, 2:12 PM UTC

stmfreak wrote: post #69

TomK32 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't know what the answer is, or how to deal with it. The answer is to give them a home, help to get back into a regular life and make sure they don't run into the same issues again that led to their homelessness. Finland has managed to achieve this, why can't the rest of the western world follow?

Most of these people had homes and jobs once, but prefer drugs and alcohol over the rules and expectations of those who provided said homes and jobs. Homelessness is not a sudden condition, it is the result of thousands of choices to indulge in selfish behavior. Inflicting family oriented communities with shelters for these people is the wrong approach. We need to provided a path out of homelessness that enforces sob…

That is a popular narrative, but not an accurate or effective description. We have always had lazy and crazy people around but we now have a generation starving for opportunity and purpose and families with kids on the streets. Something has changed so that blaming all homelessness on fun seeking is no longer sufficient.

Re: In fighting homeless camp, Irvine's Asians win, but at a cost

#95

Post by Simulacra » Tue, Apr 10, 2018, 3:06 PM UTC

What troubles me about the Irvine case, is that it sounds like every other "concerned" group across the country when it comes to homelessness. No to tents, no to shelters in the neighborhood, no to homeless sleeping on the benches, etc. Everyone, it seems, wants the problem to go some place else, but no community, particularly in Silicon Valley, has stood up (to my knowledge and please correct me if I'm wrong here) that the homeless people of a community are PART of that community, and the community should embrace them, and integrate them.

Perhaps I'm overly optimistic...

Re: In fighting homeless camp, Irvine's Asians win, but at a cost

#96

Post by imtringued » Tue, Apr 10, 2018, 3:13 PM UTC

blondie9x wrote: post #30

Homelessness isn't a regional problem. It's a national problem. There needs to be an area designated for them at a a national level. Pushing people from place to place regionally is a terrible solution. An area needs to be designated for them nationally like Native American reservations when they were first created. The national solution needs to have programs to assist with addiction, mental health, and job training…

That's a terrible idea. A better solution is to spread them out accross the entire country so that each city has maybe only a handful of homeless people.

Re: In fighting homeless camp, Irvine's Asians win, but at a cost

#97

Post by blondie9x » Tue, Apr 10, 2018, 3:45 PM UTC

fourthark wrote: post #51

blondie9x wrote: post #30

Homelessness isn't a regional problem. It's a national problem. There needs to be an area designated for them at a a national level. Pushing people from place to place regionally is a terrible solution. An area needs to be designated for them nationally like Native American reservations when they were first created. The national solution needs to have programs to assist with addiction, mental health, and job training…

Probably would turn into concentration camp though.

No there would be job training, substance abuse rehab, and mental health programs. Its just getting homeless off the streets nationally and getting them to one central place where all efforts can be combined. Regional approaches don't work. We have to tackle it in one place nationally. We cannot have people living on the streets who don't get help all in one place. Now people are going town to town aimlessly and without direction.

Re: In fighting homeless camp, Irvine's Asians win, but at a cost

#98

Post by lostmsu » Tue, Apr 10, 2018, 3:59 PM UTC

antisthenes wrote: post #77

NedIsakoff wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course, but that is their point of view.

That just makes their point of view wrong. I'm not sure what you're saying here.

It does not make it wrong. Only potentially wrong.

Re: In fighting homeless camp, Irvine's Asians win, but at a cost

#99

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Apr 10, 2018, 10:01 PM UTC

praha14 wrote: post #93

TomK32 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't know what the answer is, or how to deal with it. The answer is to give them a home, help to get back into a regular life and make sure they don't run into the same issues again that led to their homelessness. Finland has managed to achieve this, why can't the rest of the western world follow?

Isn't Finland almost entirely white whereas California is predominantly Hispanic? That seems like an obvious first place to look. It could be the case that the distribution of time-preference, social trust, IQ, or any of the other factors that correlate with homelessness differs among ethnicities.

[deleted]