Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Project from Hell (2008)

projectfailures.wordpress.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 157 posts

Re: Project from Hell (2008)

#51

Post by fnordsensei »

ryandrake wrote: post #29
jmull wrote: post #25

I would guess the project was (is?) running pretty much just as the people in charge wanted it to run. 10 years in and they were still billing -- more than ever -- for a project that would have completed 7-8 years previously if things had been done according to plan. All the seemingly massively stupid and counter productive decisions made make sense if the goal is to confuse matters to make it seem like progress has…

What did the demotivational poster say? Consultants don’t make money with solutions, they make money by prolonging the problem.

That's the fallacy with hourly billing. The alternative model is value-based pricing, where you price the solution/intervention upfront.

Of course, this becomes more expensive upfront as well, because the consultant takes on the risk. Hourly billing seems cheaper to the client, since they have to take on the risk instead.

Re: Project from Hell (2008)

#53

Post by commandlinefan »

> “C++ for dummies” on many people’s desks.

Surprised they didn't get fired for reading/learning at work when you're paid to be programming all the time. Although I've never been fired for reading at work, I've had it made clear on multiple occasions at different jobs that reading wouldn't be tolerated, and I was already down a couple of strikes.

Re: Project from Hell (2008)

#54

Post by shubb »

amyjess wrote: post #44
marcosdumay wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So they were not really employees, but consultants. On places where it's hard to fire people, mostly everybody works as consultants and people tend see those positions as normal job positions.

A startup I once worked at a decade ago decided to hire a sales executive in the UK. They initially hired him as a contractor and only made him a full-time employee a few months later because in the UK you can easily fire a contractor but not an employee, and they really wanted to make sure the guy they hired was the right person for the job. (To answer the inevitable "was he the right person?": Yes, he was. EMEA was…

You can actually fire without cause in the UK within the first 2 years of employment. Until that period elapses they have no recourse unless they can show discrimination on a protected ground (e.g race, pregnancy).

However, most UK employers would use a probation period or initial fixed term contract (true employee with a fixed end date), rather than a non employee contractor.

It is unlikely your company hired the guy as a contractor because the set up for becoming a self employed contractor (your bank will hate you, an umbrella company takes 10% of your income, you have to register as self employed abd fill out extra tax forms for ever), would probably kill a hire, if you weren't hiring an existing contractor, who wouldn't hang around to perm.

Re: Project from Hell (2008)

#55

Post by ILikeConemowk »

commandlinefan wrote: post #53

> “C++ for dummies” on many people’s desks. Surprised they didn't get fired for reading/learning at work when you're paid to be programming all the time. Although I've never been fired for reading at work, I've had it made clear on multiple occasions at different jobs that reading wouldn't be tolerated, and I was already down a couple of strikes.

> I've had it made clear on multiple occasions at different jobs that reading wouldn't be tolerated

Story time? Please?

You definitely seem like a good prospect for the following "workplace of hell" saga? ;)

Re: Project from Hell (2008)

#56

Post by [deleted] »

commandlinefan wrote: post #53

> “C++ for dummies” on many people’s desks. Surprised they didn't get fired for reading/learning at work when you're paid to be programming all the time. Although I've never been fired for reading at work, I've had it made clear on multiple occasions at different jobs that reading wouldn't be tolerated, and I was already down a couple of strikes.

[deleted]

Re: Project from Hell (2008)

#58

Post by brazzy »

1ris wrote: post #35
marcosdumay wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So they were not really employees, but consultants. On places where it's hard to fire people, mostly everybody works as consultants and people tend see those positions as normal job positions.

In Germany it is hard to fire somebody. Almost nobody works as consultant, and consultants are not normal job positions.

Bullshit.

I've worked as a consultant in Germany for 13 years, and pretty much every large project has consultants in it, often half the developers are consultants. IBM, T-Systems, Capgemini and accenture each have around 5000 people doing software consulting, and there'S hundreds if not thousands of smaller consultancies.

Re: Project from Hell (2008)

#59

Post by lucio »

lifeisstillgood wrote: post #36
jmull wrote: post #25

I would guess the project was (is?) running pretty much just as the people in charge wanted it to run. 10 years in and they were still billing -- more than ever -- for a project that would have completed 7-8 years previously if things had been done according to plan. All the seemingly massively stupid and counter productive decisions made make sense if the goal is to confuse matters to make it seem like progress has…

But they are being fined at E1000's a day. In the UK we now have projects forced to go through regular if not frequent traffic light reviews - a panel of actual experts reviews the project - i think it was one such thing that killed the NHS network project (12 billion over spend). one panel, one review. saved money. i suspect the french gov will have put something similar in place, but i do agree with the final parag…

killed AFTER 12 billion over spend, not very effective

Re: Project from Hell (2008)

#60

Post by troels »

ido wrote: post #26
mpweiher wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would be the notice period. Germany is similar, it tends to be 6 weeks to the end of the quarter, and it generally applies to both employee and employer. Though it often isn't quite as applicable to the employee...what are they going to do if you don't show up, fire you?

I've never had a job in Germany where the Probezeit wasn't exactly 6 months (the maximum allowed).

Do people actually stay on with a company for six months, after giving notice? And what manager in their right mind would ever want that anyway?
Post reply on HN