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OpenAI Charter

blog.openai.com

91–100 of 183 posts

Re: OpenAI Charter

#91

So I have a question. To "avoid enabling uses of AI or AGI that harm humanity or unduly concentrate power" what does one do with an idea or line of research that could potentially harm humanity or unduly concentrate power? The manipulation of social media by foreign actors armed with dumb-AI / automation was an obvious conclusion to many of us well before the Snowden leaks, but what could we do exactly? I remember ha…

Good question, and the best answer would probably require a trip down some rabbit holes.

One answer might be, bring it to an org you trust, that specializes in those rabbit holes, like OpenAI, that is if you decide you trust them.

Re: OpenAI Charter

#92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Check my comment history. I can assure you its true as I will demonstrate in the near future. As for the security, you'd have no ability to penetrate internal aspects of it without physical and detectable access patterns. This is achieved using common sense design methodologies that are already proofed industry standards. Behaving as though securitization is theoretically smacks as a cash grab to me. If you have some…

To be frank, your comment history has all the hallmarks of a crank[1]. Specifically, points 10, 9, 7 and 6, although there's also evidence of 2 and 8. Now I could be wrong, but convincing me of that would take a demonstration, or at least explicitly describing the capabilities of your agi. [1]: https://www.scottaaronson.com/blog/?p=304

Old foundations are meant to be redefined/invalidate by new. - Complexity theory - Computational Theory - Graph Theory Are all subsets of Information theory. They're approaches/frames. New ones can be created that invalidate the established limits imposed by others.

Everything is possible until proven. Given how little attribution is paid to people who break through fundamental aspects of understanding and given how much politics and favoring is played in publications/academic circles, one who doesn't have standing in such circles would be a fool to openly resolve some of the most outstanding and fundamental aspects of the problems that plague them. I've read about and watched a number of individuals with proven track records and contributions to science/technology be marginalized, exploited and written off. I've watch a number of corporations exploit such individuals works w/ no attribution or established recognition beyond a footnote. I've watched the world attempt to suggest such inventions/establishments come via mechanisms and institutions that they do not. So, I know better this time around as to what to do w/ my works.

Just about every person who contributes fundamentally to the world is called a crank at some point it in time. It conveys the huge disconnect the average and even prestigious individual has with reality and/or the attempts they make to reframe it to fit their purpose, narrative, standing..

My comment history has yet to receive any remarks that refute its establishments beyond down votes. It stands alone in this manner as will the foundational establishment of AGI.

http://nautil.us/issue/21/information/the-man-who-tried-to-r...

Re: OpenAI Charter

#93
post #66
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are a few examples of those cases, exactly?

Terminator, 2001, I Robot, ... oh wait you probably meant in reality. sorry. edit: Oh and how could I forget the Matrix. Which of course we all totally live in.

Before nuclear weapons were built, the only examples of their large-scale destruction were in fiction. The World Set Free by H.G. Wells is the main example I can think of: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_World_Set_Free

It got some of the details wrong (i.e. the atomic bombs exploded over a long period of time vs instantly), but the consequences were fairly accurate.

If you're going to wait until all the actual details and examples happen in reality, then it's too late to have much insight, especially if we're talking about something capable of self-replication like a virus or artificial intelligence. The nature of the problem REQUIRES anticipation instead of mere reaction.

Re: OpenAI Charter

#94
post #88
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why don't you just summarize your actual point or at least provide further guidance? You literally posted a link without any further clarification about its relevance. As it stands, you're not giving me any incentive to "strongly reconsider" my position.

Perhaps this is one of those things that can't be easily 30-second summarized, lest understood without a modicum of effort! (Besides you sound, frankly, somewhat uncharitable --so I will stop wasting your time and refrain from trying to persuade you further.)

I sound uncharitable because you posted a (from my perspectively, completely random) link to a research article in a different field and implored me to change my thinking, without any other commentary. That's not a substantive addition to the conversation, because on my end I have no idea whether to take your link seriously and how much time or effort to invest in learning about it.

After reading it for two minutes, it's not obvious how to take a productive insight about artificial intelligence from what seems to be an article about mutations. I offered my sincere first thought about what you might have meant and asked for further clarification, and you shot that down without any further clarification.

Now after I've twice asked you for clarification and you haven't provided it, you're telling me you're wasting your time. Do you see how this is unhelpful? It's borderline Kafkaesque.

Re: OpenAI Charter

#95
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You stated it yourself in post : > there is absolutely no indication whatsoever that OpenAI would credibly reach this (vague, underspecified) goal before any of the other serious contenders. > Nor would competitors have any requirement to include OpenAI if and when they were getting close. In summary : > No one of the intelligence capable of producing AGI is going to publish the full details > People who claim they w…

> No one of the intelligence capable of producing AGI is going to publish the full details This is what I'm talking about when I say "unsubstantiated." Do you recognize that this claim isn't true a priori?

You're welcome to contact me when it occurs. I think I defined who I was in an earlier comment against the advice of someone who claimed it might impact my ability to get capital in the future.

Re: OpenAI Charter

#96
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Terminator, 2001, I Robot, ... oh wait you probably meant in reality. sorry. edit: Oh and how could I forget the Matrix. Which of course we all totally live in.

Before nuclear weapons were built, the only examples of their large-scale destruction were in fiction. The World Set Free by H.G. Wells is the main example I can think of: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_World_Set_Free It got some of the details wrong (i.e. the atomic bombs exploded over a long period of time vs instantly), but the consequences were fairly accurate. If you're going to wait until all the actual deta…

This is survivorship bias. How many weapons of mass destruction have been foretold by science fiction that have never been invented? More generally, how much technology has been written about in science fiction that we have only the faintest hope of ever achieving?

Re: OpenAI Charter

#97
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

point is: AI is different than your usual game, in that the winner might appear randomly, and destroy the world if she makes a mistake. so i believe open ais points are warrented

> and destroy the world if she makes a mistake How would the world be destroyed? Does an example work without handwaving about recursive self-improvement and an imperative to optimize extremely literally? Can you give me a play by play of how a newly developed strong AI eradicates the human species quickly and thoroughly without us having any time to react? EDIT: In summation, there have been several downvotes, but t…

I think you can find some scary stories in this old thread: https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/pxGYZs2zHJNHvWY5b/request-fo...

Though I can't say for sure without going through it all again how many rely on smarter-than-human intelligence (achieved via FOOM or not), or how many explicitly end up literally eradicating the planet quickly and thoroughly.

Another thought experiment to consider instead (but it generalizes somewhat to AGI) is the Age of Em scenario, that is, human emulations become possible. The economic shift caused by this would be at least on the scale of the shift from forager -> farmer and from farmer -> industry. Post-transition doesn't mean (immediate) eradication for the old group, but close enough: they no longer control the world and their numbers as a percentage of the rest of the humans are vastly reduced. There's also a hierarchical control systems point I could throw in here that reaction and correction time at higher levels is going to be slower than that of lower levels, so any claims of "we would just squash it in a month" would highly depend on what level of control has to do the squashing. Some levels can't move that fast.

Re: OpenAI Charter

#98
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What, concretely, makes you think that any of those companies wouldn't place a focus on safety and value alignment? Competitive pressure, and the "if we don't, someone else will" effect (or Moloch, if you like). AGI- particularly recursively self-improving AGI- is the ultimate first-mover advantage: the first company or country to have AGI will very likely be able to leverage that into keeping anyone else from gett…

> recursively self-improving AGI- is the ultimate first-mover advantage: the first company or country to have AGI will very likely be able to leverage that into keeping anyone else from getting it How? This doesn't seem axiomatic.

Seems clear that you could instruct the AGI to do anything it could to interfere with other organizations efforts to build an AGI. Obviously Nation States would have strong reasons for pursuing such a course of action and unscrupulous corporations would likewise have strong capitalistic motivations to do so.

Re: OpenAI Charter

#99
172. First let us postulate that the computer scientists succeed in developing intelligent machines that can do all things better than human beings can do them. In that case presumably all work will be done by vast, highly organized systems of machines and no human effort will be necessary. Either of two cases might occur. The machines might be permitted to make all of their own decisions without human oversight, or else human control over the machines might be retained.

173. If the machines are permitted to make all their own decisions, we can’t make any conjectures as to the results, because it is impossible to guess how such machines might behave. We only point out that the fate of the human race would be at the mercy of the machines. It might be argued that the human race would never be foolish enough to hand over all power to the machines. But we are suggesting neither that the human race would voluntarily turn power over to the machines nor that the machines would willfully seize power. What we do suggest is that the human race might easily permit itself to drift into a position of such dependence on the machines that it would have no practical choice but to accept all of the machines’ decisions. As society and the problems that face it become more and more complex and as machines become more and more intelligent, people will let machines make more and more of their decisions for them, simply because machine-made decisions will bring better results than man-made ones. Eventually a stage may be reached at which the decisions necessary to keep the system running will be so complex that human beings will be incapable of making them intelligently. At that stage the machines will be in effective control. People won’t be able to just turn the machine off, because they will be so dependent on them that turning them off would amount to suicide.

174. On the other hand it is possible that human control over the machines may be retained. In that case the average man may have control over certain private machines of his own, such as his car or his personal computer, but control over large systems of machines will be in the hands of a tiny elite — just as it is today, but with two differences. Due to improved techniques the elite will have greater control over the masses; and because human work will no longer be necessary the masses will be superfluous, a useless burden on the system. If the elite is ruthless they may simply decide to exterminate the mass of humanity. If they are humane they may use propaganda or other psychological or biological techniques to reduce the birth rate until the mass of humanity becomes extinct, leaving the world to the elite. Or, if the elite consists of softhearted liberals, they may decide to play the role of good shepherds to the rest of the human race. They will see to it that everyone’s physical needs are satisfied, that all children are raised under psychologically hygienic conditions, that everyone has a wholesome hobby to keep him busy, and that anyone who may become dissatisfied undergoes “treatment” to cure his “problem.” Of course, life will be so purposeless that people will have to be biologically or psychologically engineered either to remove their need for the power process or to make them “sublimate” their drive for power into some harmless hobby. These engineered human beings may be happy in such a society, but they most certainly will not be free. They will have been reduced to the status of domestic animals.

Re: OpenAI Charter

#100
post #94
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps this is one of those things that can't be easily 30-second summarized, lest understood without a modicum of effort! (Besides you sound, frankly, somewhat uncharitable --so I will stop wasting your time and refrain from trying to persuade you further.)

I sound uncharitable because you posted a (from my perspectively, completely random) link to a research article in a different field and implored me to change my thinking, without any other commentary. That's not a substantive addition to the conversation, because on my end I have no idea whether to take your link seriously and how much time or effort to invest in learning about it. After reading it for two minutes,…

He's probably suggesting that in Virology it's generally frowned upon to publish research on how to for instance make Smallpox airborne and as virulent as the Flu. So it could be wise to leave out the exact details on how to make an AI recursively self improving when publishing. If you've spent time in Research many groups already do this by leaving out small but critical details that make replication difficult or impossible. This is across fields not just CS/AI
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