Credit Card Signatures Are About to Become Extinct in the U.S • Hacker News Board

Re: Credit Card Signatures Are About to Become Extinct in the U.S

#461

Post by fps » Mon, Apr 09, 2018, 5:10 PM UTC

Nursie wrote: post #448

ryandrake wrote: post #428

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pull phone out of pocket, touch the reader, nothing happens. Theory 1: I’m not touching the reader in the right place. Maybe the sensor is on this side or that. Try hovering the phone all over the POS box. Theory 2: Maybe my phone is not working. Try waving it around again while cashier has this “get your shit together” look on his face. Pull out CC. Theory 3: The reader supports NFC but not ApplePay, so now I’ve was…

Never had any of this happen, it's quicker and easier than even using contactless credit cards for me. And it's becoming really commonplace in the UK. 1) You've never unlocked your phone before? How weird. 2) How broken is your phone? Never had this issue (I use android pay multiple times per day) 3) This is unusual, to the point of not being a thing here - Applepay is compatible with contactless EMV, as is Android P…

I use android pay when it's available in the US, but the first time you encounter any specific reader, there's a learning curve. By "reader", it should be obvious we mean the reader that is in the store that you tap your phone or slide your card into, not the fingerprint reader on your phone.

Most of them look like this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Payment_terminal#/media/File:P... and will occasionally have a contactless payment icon or an apple/android pay logo on the screen when you walk up to it. In the case of this card reader, the NFC point is at the bottom of the screen and you basically have to rub your phone on the screen to get it to read.

Sometimes they look like this one: https://www.flickr.com/photos/jeepersmedia/14128014654 but that big pad at the top is a lie - those have never actually worked and if there's not a sign on it, the cashier will tell you it's "broken".

The rest of them look like this: https://twitter.com/dionlisle/status/768124197549723648 and there's no clear indication or consistency where the NFC contact point is, or it is also a lie and you shouldn't even bother.

I'd say about half of my credit card transactions these days involve me handing a card to someone who swipes it directly into the register - there's no way to possibly use NFC or enter a PIN for debit/etc.

Re: Credit Card Signatures Are About to Become Extinct in the U.S

#462

Post by fps » Mon, Apr 09, 2018, 5:17 PM UTC

astura wrote: post #317

Uehreka wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It might be faster if it works. If you try it and it doesn’t work and the cashier tries to help and then you have to go back to using a credit card anyway, it’s slow and people get annoyed. If that reliably didn’t happen, things would be fine. Unfortunately, payment processing in the US (or at least in Maryland where I live) is a mess: - Point-of-sale devices are frequently broken, with post-it notes taped over the c…

The most bizarre one is at a Subway I go to once in a while: they have signs all over saying they accept Android Pay, but when I go to use it the phone vibrates like it worked but the terminal replies "insert chip," or maybe it's "chip required." The cashiers claim it works for other people though. I tried it several times over a year just to see if it was a one-off error, but it always did the same. I really like An…

your cards themselves can disallow contactless payment when a chip reader is present. Discover did this to me when they sent me a chip card - I had been using my discover card contactless for a while with android pay, and all of a sudden it stopped working on all new terminals and started saying "insert chip", assuming the terminal had a chip reader in it. I switched to using my visa card with google pay and it continues to work mostly everywhere, even though I have a chip in my visa card as well.

I find I only use google pay when I'm not in a hurry or when I'm very familiar with the specific reader and it has a long track record of working. If I go somewhere new, I always use my card unless I have time and the store isn't busy.

Re: Credit Card Signatures Are About to Become Extinct in the U.S

#463

Post by Matheus28 » Mon, Apr 09, 2018, 5:27 PM UTC

cesarb wrote: post #363

rypskar wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there more than one country that still uses checks?

Yes. They are still common in Brazil, for instance.

Common is a stretch compared to how common they are in the US. Banks in Brazil still give them to costumers, but I’ve never seen anyone use them. In the US, mailing checks around is a common occurrence.

Re: Credit Card Signatures Are About to Become Extinct in the U.S

#464

Post by rokhayakebe » Mon, Apr 09, 2018, 5:37 PM UTC

thomasahle wrote: post #297

rokhayakebe wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally I like tipping. I think people should still be paid well, but let me tip on top of it if I wish.

It's actually somewhat infantilizing to tip someone, unless they need it to be paid. You would never give a lawyer, consultant or someone else "respected" in society "2 dollars to buy something nice". Tipping is a very in the face sign of inequality and really needs to die (as soon as the inequality is gone of course).

Your concern seems to be with the amount which appears to belittle the person who is receiving it. You have to keep in mind the amount is in proportion to how much you are paying for a product/service.

I guarantee you NO lawyer on earth is going to reject a 15% tip let alone 30%.

Next time you go to a Starbucks or a bar give a 100% to 200% tip and see if the barista/bartender is offended.

Re: Credit Card Signatures Are About to Become Extinct in the U.S

#465

Post by rhino369 » Mon, Apr 09, 2018, 5:49 PM UTC

ceejayoz wrote: post #135

skookumchuck wrote: post #17

It turns out that a signature on a bank check means nothing. Neither does the payer name on the check. Not the amount in cursive. Nor does the check paper. The only things that are checked are the digits of the amount, and the account number. The rest of the check can be complete garbage, and the check will go through and the bank will pay it. Then the banks will blame you, the account holder. I learned this the hard…

> The only things that are checked are the digits of the amount, and the account number. YMMV. Simple won't let me deposit a check made out to "Me and Wife" in my personal account - I can only deposit it in our joint. They'll permit me to deposit "Me OR Wife".

They are supposed to but only if your wife endorsed it too.

Re: Credit Card Signatures Are About to Become Extinct in the U.S

#466

Post by Qub3d » Mon, Apr 09, 2018, 5:59 PM UTC

tome wrote: post #446

jimnotgym wrote: post #240

In the UK cards moved to 'chip and pin' in 2006! Fraud in a 'customer present' scenario is very low at our stores. The last fraud in fact was a foreign card that didn't support chip and pin. I can't believe Visa and MasterCard have not made it mandatory world wide... ...except card fraud lossed are recharged to the merchant so perhaps they don't care? Out of interest there is a special exception for disabled people w…

> The last fraud in fact was a foreign card that didn't support chip and pin. "The last fraud"? Are frauds so rare that it's meaningful to talk about the last one?!

Last in this case means "previous" or "most recent". Its just ambiguous English.

Re: Credit Card Signatures Are About to Become Extinct in the U.S

#467

Post by ceejayoz » Mon, Apr 09, 2018, 6:40 PM UTC

rhino369 wrote: post #465

ceejayoz wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The only things that are checked are the digits of the amount, and the account number. YMMV. Simple won't let me deposit a check made out to "Me and Wife" in my personal account - I can only deposit it in our joint. They'll permit me to deposit "Me OR Wife".

They are supposed to but only if your wife endorsed it too.

I suggested that approach, as well as having her file a support request authorizing it through her own Simple account. Apparently their parent bank's policies prevent both.

This was before they had the joint offering, so we had to request a new check. Now we just put stuff in the joint.

Re: Credit Card Signatures Are About to Become Extinct in the U.S

#468

Post by cup-of-tea » Mon, Apr 09, 2018, 6:51 PM UTC

notoverthere wrote: post #414

cup-of-tea wrote: post #387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I rarely use chip and pin any more. Contactless is everywhere. The UK is the most advanced in this regard, though.

Is the UK most advanced? In Australia they can pay for anything up to $100 with tap. Over $100, they can still tap, but then need to enter their PIN into the terminal (i.e. no need to insert the card for PIN entry – a tap is sufficient). We don't have that in the UK.

Most advanced in Europe maybe. I rarely use anything but contactless in the UK (where I live), but often find no option for contactless elsewhere in Europe. I've never had to swipe and sign anywhere in my whole life, though.

Re: Credit Card Signatures Are About to Become Extinct in the U.S

#469

Post by jandrese » Mon, Apr 09, 2018, 6:57 PM UTC

bradknowles wrote: post #235

adventured wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's because you're from out of country. You'll almost never be asked to produce ID with a standard credit card purchase in the US, unless it's unusual in amount. I'm in my late 30s and have never once been asked to produce proof of ID in relation to a standard credit card purchase. Whether at a grocery store, restaurant, etc. I've never seen anyone else have to show ID either, maybe once in the 1980s.

I write “please check ID” on the back of all my cards. I’m astonished when someone actually does check my ID. It happens maybe once or twice a year.

I have both my signature (because it's required for the card to be valid) and "See ID" on the back of my card. I get asked for my ID about half of the time or so. It's rare to be asked at restaurants, but retailers are pretty good at checking.

I've always thought the signature was security theater, asking for a photo ID is way better from a security standpoint.

Re: Credit Card Signatures Are About to Become Extinct in the U.S

#470

Post by nolok » Mon, Apr 09, 2018, 6:59 PM UTC

lmm wrote: post #312

nolok wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is, but it means parent will lose any contractual dispute ever on the signature proof part. Here is how it goes in a dispute. You have A saying B signed a contract, and B saying he didn't. It's A's job to prove he did first, and he indicate there is a signature on there, and it's B's. So now it's B's turn, and he needs to show it isn't his (if he does, then A become accused a making a false, and will need to prove…

> To do that, B needs to prove that he usually signs a different way, so he provides other signatures everywhere to show it. Since parent signs differently everywhere, he cannot show that he has a regular signature that doesn't match the one on paper. How often does that work? Presumably a fraudster would copy B's signature from a receipt out of their trash or something (a priori they have no way of knowing that B si…

The vast majority of cases where this relevant (99+%) are identity theft, where you got the name / ssn /address through some mail or website or whatever and uses that to contract things on someone else's name.

Also, finding differences in signature is much easier and much more advanced / developed than you would think. Even if you copy mine after seeing it or having a model, the places where you slow down your pen etc... Vary compared to me, and that can be detected.

Is it possible with technology to make a perfect copy? Of course, but then you just move to the next steps of the case, and you already cleared out the majority of bogus cases.

So having a fixed stable signature is a very good thing for you the user, and it always surprise me when I see people who think they played the system when they screw their own protection like parent.