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How to keep your ISP’s nose out of your browser history with encrypted DNS

arstechnica.com

151–160 of 195 posts

Re: How to keep your ISP’s nose out of your browser history with encrypted DNS

#151

If you care about privacy, use your ISPs DNS servers. Your ISP can see exactly which websites you're visiting regardless of how you do DNS, thanks to being able to see which IPs you're sending packets to, and thanks to SNI. The only thing you get from adding some third party encrypted DNS service to the mix, is an additional party which can also see what websites you're visiting.

We have to plug many holes, encrypted DNS plugs one, encrypted SNI will plug another.

Re: How to keep your ISP’s nose out of your browser history with encrypted DNS

#152
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

VPN is not really a solution because you have no reason to trust your VPN provider more than your ISP.

It is a social consideration. Would you trust the government and jurisdiction of Holland or would you rather use DNS services offered by Turkey?

To answer this question, location is pretty much key.

If in the Netherlands: probably Turkey. If anywhere else: probably the Netherlands.

Although it is hard to think about a scenario in which the only available choice is between the Netherlands and Turkey.

The idea is hedging against the closest guy with a stick.

Re: How to keep your ISP’s nose out of your browser history with encrypted DNS

#153
post #44

If you care about privacy, use your ISPs DNS servers. Your ISP can see exactly which websites you're visiting regardless of how you do DNS, thanks to being able to see which IPs you're sending packets to, and thanks to SNI. The only thing you get from adding some third party encrypted DNS service to the mix, is an additional party which can also see what websites you're visiting.

You most likely also get faster DNS lookups by using your ISP's DNS servers.

Depends a lot. My ISP's (both mobile ISP and DSL) have pretty slow DNS providers. My mobile connections were significantly quicker after I switched to using VPN with Cloudflare DNS as resolver (or even the local resolver, though that is normally a bit slower than Cloudflare/Google DNS due to caching)

Re: How to keep your ISP’s nose out of your browser history with encrypted DNS

#154
post #40

If you care about privacy, use your ISPs DNS servers. Your ISP can see exactly which websites you're visiting regardless of how you do DNS, thanks to being able to see which IPs you're sending packets to, and thanks to SNI. The only thing you get from adding some third party encrypted DNS service to the mix, is an additional party which can also see what websites you're visiting.

I'm still pissed off we didn't get encrypted SNI in TLS 1.3 It would've broken so many dpi based censorship systems in countries like Iran, Turkey, and Russia.

SNI is just an ugly hack because IPv6 is not deployed widely.

You could have a server listen on a subnet and clients randomizing its target IP.

Re: How to keep your ISP’s nose out of your browser history with encrypted DNS

#155
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its better than no solution, and you aren't limited to using one VPN. A dozen VPN providers each with 8% of your browsing history is still bad, but far preferable to an ISP with 100%.

Is it? I would guess that people already split their traffic between a home workstation connected through a local ISP, a mobile phone connected through a national carrier ISP, and a work computer that is connected with a (third) enterprise ISP. The concerns that linger in the comments here, are about the dangers of exposing even a slice of your metadata can be disastrous. Therefore, going from three to eight ISPs is…

The more information any one entity has about any individual, the more accurate a profile they can create. The more thinly spread your metadata is, the harder it is for any one corporation to create a profile. Clearly there is no perfect solution, it depends on what sort of privacy risks you are trying to mitigate.

Re: How to keep your ISP’s nose out of your browser history with encrypted DNS

#156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For sites like google, blocking IPs would meet resistance.

This situation is covered with a whitelist of IPs and domains (year ago it became official after exploitation of vulnerability in how blacklist register works, before it was on ISPs, Youtube was banned by some ISPs quite a few times), including .google.com, .youtube.com and other Alphabet's domains, *.facebook.com and some others.

So effectively, if you post something on Blogger it cannot be taken down, because the whole Google would come down with it.

Still, encrypting SNI hides quite some information (were you searching, watching youtube, reading blogger, was it image search, maps...?)

Re: How to keep your ISP’s nose out of your browser history with encrypted DNS

#157
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm still pissed off we didn't get encrypted SNI in TLS 1.3 It would've broken so many dpi based censorship systems in countries like Iran, Turkey, and Russia.

SNI is just an ugly hack because IPv6 is not deployed widely. You could have a server listen on a subnet and clients randomizing its target IP.

Datacenters today work differently: IPs convey a fuzzy idea of where to find what you are looking for. Server name will be used to route your request internally in the DC.

I cannot imagine exposing the IPv6 IPs of single racks: it makes the whole "cloud" thing fall apart.

Re: How to keep your ISP’s nose out of your browser history with encrypted DNS

#158
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SNI-enabled browsers send the unencrypted hostname in the initial ClientHello frame. It's the first transaction in the protocol, and it's how the server decides the content of the ServerHello reply. There is no way to detect the ability to avoid SNI, or indeed any sensible and generally useful way to tell if a ServerHello varied according to the ClientHello SNI hostname without probing the server, which entails intro…

"There is no way to detect the ability to avoid SNI..." Assuming one is using an SNI-enabled browser. I dont use an SNI-enabled browser to make the first encrypted HTTP request. In fact I didnt even say I was using a "browser". I said "https client". For example, one can use an https client that has SNI disabled or which has no SNI code at all, or one can send any string as the servername in ClientHello.1 If the serv…

When you say "If the server responds with hostname not found", what are you talking about? Exactly which protocol are you refering to when you say "hostname not found" ?

Most web servers will just fall back to the default virtual hosts SSL certificate if no SNI header is present in the clients request... They don't reply "hostname not found", or "nope, no such host", or anything similar...

Re: How to keep your ISP’s nose out of your browser history with encrypted DNS

#159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not what the article is proposing. Still, your home ISP may not be able to, but the ISP of the machine you're SSHing into can.

It is a social issue. Would you trust the government of Holland or would you rather try your chances with the Turkish government?

With the new legislation that's coming I absolutely wouldn't trust the Netherlands anymore... Something like Denmark seems like a better alternative.

Re: How to keep your ISP’s nose out of your browser history with encrypted DNS

#160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SNI is just an ugly hack because IPv6 is not deployed widely. You could have a server listen on a subnet and clients randomizing its target IP.

Datacenters today work differently: IPs convey a fuzzy idea of where to find what you are looking for. Server name will be used to route your request internally in the DC. I cannot imagine exposing the IPv6 IPs of single racks: it makes the whole "cloud" thing fall apart.

If thats true it’s because of the limitations of IPv4 more than anything else. With a single $5/month machine from Linode you have a /64 IPv6 subnet, that is 2^64 IP addresses just for that one machine.
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