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Credit Card Signatures Are About to Become Extinct in the U.S

nytimes.com

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Re: Credit Card Signatures Are About to Become Extinct in the U.S

#161

Post by sergers »

skookumchuck wrote: post #17

It turns out that a signature on a bank check means nothing. Neither does the payer name on the check. Not the amount in cursive. Nor does the check paper. The only things that are checked are the digits of the amount, and the account number. The rest of the check can be complete garbage, and the check will go through and the bank will pay it. Then the banks will blame you, the account holder. I learned this the hard…

I had rented out my basement suite.

My renter's for 1.5 years wrote me cheques with payee of wrong first name, and typo in last name.

No issues depositing any

Re: Credit Card Signatures Are About to Become Extinct in the U.S

#162

Post by megy »

lettergram wrote: post #14
esturk wrote: post #5

From experience, a signature in the checkout line usually takes about 5-10 seconds. Removing it may seem like a small negligible change for users, but for retailers, it most likely adds up. Imagine being able to pick up your receipt and leave. What I see being the stalwart of signatures are probably restaurants. They require that extra step with the tip.

> From experience, a signature in the checkout line usually takes about 5-10 seconds. Removing it may seem like a small negligible change for users, but for retailers, it most likely adds up. Your right, can we also remove that stupid bag tax in SF. It easily takes 20 - 30 seconds per transaction. "Do you want a bag?" "Ugh, yeah I do" "Alright that's 50 cents" "wait, could I get three bags, not two - I don't want my…

The bag tax is to get you to use less bags.

Re: Credit Card Signatures Are About to Become Extinct in the U.S

#163

Post by adventured »

brandon272 wrote: post #156
blueside wrote: post #8

Signatures haven't been required for credit cards in many other countries for quite some time now. I have often wondered why the US has historically lagged behind for everyday banking. (e.g. email money transfers, chip enabled cards, pin number verification, tap to pay)

In Canada I have not signed for a credit card transaction in years. Everything is tap to pay and chip-and-pin for larger amounts. Extremely convenient. When I go to the U.S. I usually have to produce ID when using my credit card. Is this because I am from out of country or do they do this with everyone paying by credit card?

It's because you're from out of country. You'll almost never be asked to produce ID with a standard credit card purchase in the US, unless it's unusual in amount.

I'm in my late 30s and have never once been asked to produce proof of ID in relation to a standard credit card purchase. Whether at a grocery store, restaurant, etc. I've never seen anyone else have to show ID either, maybe once in the 1980s.

Re: Credit Card Signatures Are About to Become Extinct in the U.S

#164

Post by Uehreka »

jghn wrote: post #129
smelendez wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US, the biggest adopters of Apple Pay have been big chain grocery, drug, convenience, etc. stores. For decades, there has been a (somewhat class-based) stigma about holding up the line in these kinds of places by paying with check, government benefits, coins, coupons, or anything else besides cash and credit. There's also a separate, arguably more deserved stigma about entitled people causing trouble by using…

What? In my experience Apple Pay is faster than other payment methods. In what way do you see it as slower?

It might be faster if it works. If you try it and it doesn’t work and the cashier tries to help and then you have to go back to using a credit card anyway, it’s slow and people get annoyed.

If that reliably didn’t happen, things would be fine. Unfortunately, payment processing in the US (or at least in Maryland where I live) is a mess:

- Point-of-sale devices are frequently broken, with post-it notes taped over the chip slot saying “CHIP READER DISABLED”. I’ve dealt with buggy readers that force you to swipe, then go “Oh that’s a chip card, insert it!”, then when you insert it they go “Chip not supported, reverting to swipe as a backup method”. We’re struggling enough with the basics.

- I’ve seen stores that put a “We accept ApplePay” sign in their window, but when you go in, it’s a gamble as to whether all the dependencies from the reader to the network to the payment processors are working today. When I’ve asked cashiers, their responses range from a despondent “I just don’t know anymore” to a cautious “We have it but I haven’t seen anyone use it in a while.”

- Complicating all of this is the fact that all of the POS devices in my area look identical, whether they support NFC payments or not. I have a hunch that the hardware vendor just ships NFC-capable units to everyone, but only turns them on in certain conditions (maybe related to the type of contract the merchant has?)

If anyone has plumbed the depths of this issue and can explain what’s going on, I’d appreciate it.

Re: Credit Card Signatures Are About to Become Extinct in the U.S

#165

Post by toomuchtodo »

brandon272 wrote: post #160
toomuchtodo wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Home Depot emails me a receipt after every credit card transaction with them. Is PDF not an open standard and a piece of data that could be routed appropriately? Electronic documents can already carry the same force as paper legal documents. What’s the holdup?

Does Home Depot remember your email address based on your credit card number, or do you have to key your email address in every time? I never put it in because I always assume I will have to type in my full email address at every transaction on their somewhat archaic keypads.

Remembers my card number. I just push “email receipt” on the keypad after inserting my chip card. My gmail filter than archives it and labels it “Receipt”.

A paper receipt is still printed, which is annoying, but I toss it right into the trash under the automated checkout device.

Re: Credit Card Signatures Are About to Become Extinct in the U.S

#166

Post by ChuckMcM »

For a long time I would put 'see id' on the signature line of the credit card suggesting that if someone where trying to use it the vendor would ask to see identification and that would alert them if it wasn't me using the card. And then it became clear it was trivial to just print a new card and I stopped even caring about the signature. And now a squiggle is all I leave if they insist.

So now I find I can get impatient when someone is painfully trying to recreate their exact signature using a digital signature pad that could never possibly have the resolution to do it justice.

Re: Credit Card Signatures Are About to Become Extinct in the U.S

#167

Post by emmelaich »

I haven't used a signature for a credit card transaction in at least 10 years.

I was somewhat amazed to see it was still I thing when I visited the US recently.

Strictly speaking it's still a thing in Australia, but there are always better options -- chip, pin.

Re: Credit Card Signatures Are About to Become Extinct in the U.S

#168

Post by Uehreka »

guitarbill wrote: post #61
stevep98 wrote: post #29

There’s something missing from this article. When you sign a receipt, you’re not just providing a sample of your signature for comparison against the one on the card. You are signing a document, usually saying that ‘I agree to comply with the terms of the cardholder agreement’ If this is no longer necessary, the card issuers must have determined that they have other legal agreements which cover purchases, and that th…

> You are signing a document This is in fact the only reason for a signature, it does fuck all to identify somebody, even if merchants were to check it, which they never do. But with the amount of CCTV nowadays, that's probably more reliable than a signature. Also ironic that anybody would describe PINs as the next step, I can't remember a time before PINs were used. Even EMV contactless payments are pretty common no…

I wouldn’t call it a cultural problem: there are many people in the US who really want contactless payments, and there is no group of voters or consumers campaigning against them for “tradition’s sake” (or any reason).

It seems like a legacy tech problem, held up by the same institutional forces that keep large financial systems in COBOL or FORTRAN.

Re: Credit Card Signatures Are About to Become Extinct in the U.S

#169

Post by __david__ »

marssaxman wrote: post #124
Mindless2112 wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For Visa, the merchant should require your card to be signed because a card with no signature is invalid. Other credit card companies are probably the same. > Unsigned Cards > While checking card security features, you should also make sure that the card is signed. An unsigned card is considered invalid and should not be accepted. If a customer gives you an unsigned card, the following steps must be taken: > • Check…

I stopped signing credit cards several years ago, as an experiment; how long will it take someone to notice? I'm still waiting.

Ha. I stopped doing this in 1993. I only had one person every complain, a cashier at CompUSA in 1994-ish. He wouldn't accept it until I signed the back of the card so I wrote "Please check ID" instead of signing it. He was fine with that.

Re: Credit Card Signatures Are About to Become Extinct in the U.S

#170

Post by Cerium »

post_break wrote: post #141

Can we also standardize the noise the machine makes when the transaction is a success? You know that sound "ENGHH ENGHH ENGHH" that is somehow a positive sound? It's like an alarm clock sound. Why is it not a positive "Ding!" And some will say well it's to remember your card. Well if that's the case, how about force the POS system not to print the receipt until the card is pulled? Or better yet, why does the card hav…

I'd be happy if the text didn't change until it was done. Many of the machines I encounter change the "Wait, don't remove card" text location three or four times, each time you think it is done.
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