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Credit Card Signatures Are About to Become Extinct in the U.S

nytimes.com

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Re: Credit Card Signatures Are About to Become Extinct in the U.S

#91

Post by jdavis703 »

sleet wrote: post #42
skookumchuck wrote: post #17

It turns out that a signature on a bank check means nothing. Neither does the payer name on the check. Not the amount in cursive. Nor does the check paper. The only things that are checked are the digits of the amount, and the account number. The rest of the check can be complete garbage, and the check will go through and the bank will pay it. Then the banks will blame you, the account holder. I learned this the hard…

It amazes me that cheques are still used. I'm 36 and I've never issued a cheque, I think I was issued a cheque book with my first account but never used it.

Do you still live with your parents or rent from a slum lord who only takes cash? Most landlords seem to only take cash or checks, it's really only the national apartment companies that take online payments.

Re: Credit Card Signatures Are About to Become Extinct in the U.S

#92

Post by whitepoplar »

skookumchuck wrote: post #33
gruez wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Then the banks will blame you, the account holder. even in cases of fraud?

Yes. They said I'm obliged to audit the checks myself each month.

In what country do you live?

Re: Credit Card Signatures Are About to Become Extinct in the U.S

#93

Post by ada1981 »

Interestingly, many credit card companies don't keep the required paperwork to legally collect on their loans.

This is a business decision they've made not to be in compliance.

Cases are routinely deemed uncollectible in court when challenged and they are required to remove the items from your credit report.

Re: Credit Card Signatures Are About to Become Extinct in the U.S

#94

Post by _asummers »

jdavis703 wrote: post #91
sleet wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It amazes me that cheques are still used. I'm 36 and I've never issued a cheque, I think I was issued a cheque book with my first account but never used it.

Do you still live with your parents or rent from a slum lord who only takes cash? Most landlords seem to only take cash or checks, it's really only the national apartment companies that take online payments.

My landlord takes Chase Quick Pay, which is really nice.

Re: Credit Card Signatures Are About to Become Extinct in the U.S

#95

Post by dynamoa »

Lunatic666 wrote: post #27
esturk wrote: post #5

From experience, a signature in the checkout line usually takes about 5-10 seconds. Removing it may seem like a small negligible change for users, but for retailers, it most likely adds up. Imagine being able to pick up your receipt and leave. What I see being the stalwart of signatures are probably restaurants. They require that extra step with the tip.

We have PayWave in Singapore where you can just swipe your credit card for amounts under 100$, but most of the time you have to wait pretty long for the approval to go through, it feels a bit like the time benefit is eaten up by that. Only very few merchants have fast lines, but then it’s really fun!

In Australia, the PayWave system for $100+ purchase will take no longer than signatures if the person doesn't make a mistake. It's just tap your card, press 5 buttons, then a 2-3 seconds processing time and you're off.

The process will naturally become faster as adoption increases and more people get familiar with it.

Re: Credit Card Signatures Are About to Become Extinct in the U.S

#96

Post by supertrope »

whoopdedo wrote: post #88
SilasX wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yikes! Wake up call!

I had a bank tell me there was nothing they could do because I didn't notify them of a fraudulent transaction on my account within 90 days. I didn't need 90 days to find a new bank. (A credit union, in fact.)

The time limit is 60 days. Obviously the sooner you report the better. Liability loss limit rises to $500 after just two days!

Re: Credit Card Signatures Are About to Become Extinct in the U.S

#97

Post by AshleyGrant »

pmorici wrote: post #51
tehwebguy wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a PIN were required for credit transactions I bet fraud from cloned / stolen cards would drop to about zero.

Cloning is not possible with chip cards pin or no pin. That's the whole reason US issuers switched to chips from mag stripes.

It is possible to clone chip and pin cards. Not easy, but possible:

https://www.kaspersky.com/blog/chip-n-pin-cloning/21502/

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/09/13/chip_and_pin_securi...

Re: Credit Card Signatures Are About to Become Extinct in the U.S

#98

Post by supertrope »

ada1981 wrote: post #93

Interestingly, many credit card companies don't keep the required paperwork to legally collect on their loans. This is a business decision they've made not to be in compliance. Cases are routinely deemed uncollectible in court when challenged and they are required to remove the items from your credit report.

It depends on the issuer. Some will sue card (debt?) holders for as little as $1000, probably because attorney fees can be rolled into the judgement.

Re: Credit Card Signatures Are About to Become Extinct in the U.S

#99

Post by Mindless2112 »

6t6t6t6 wrote: post #83

Once in the UK, the cashier didn't want to take my credit card because there was no signature on the back. I wondered, which kind of graphology training do Tesco cashiers go through in order to be able to identify a fake signature?

For Visa, the merchant should require your card to be signed because a card with no signature is invalid. Other credit card companies are probably the same.

> Unsigned Cards

> While checking card security features, you should also make sure that the card is signed. An unsigned card is considered invalid and should not be accepted. If a customer gives you an unsigned card, the following steps must be taken:

> • Check the cardholder’s ID.

> Ask the cardholder for some form of official government identification, such as a driver’s license or passport. Where permissible by law, the ID serial number and expiration date should be written on the sales receipt before you complete the transaction.

> • Ask the customer to sign the card.

> The card should be signed within your full view, and the signature checked against the customer’s signature on the ID. A refusal to sign means the card is still invalid and cannot be accepted.

> • Ask the customer for a different signed Visa card

> “See ID”

> Some customers write “See ID” or “Ask for ID” in the signature panel, thinking that this is a deterrent against fraud or forgery; that is, if their signature is not on the card, a fraudster will not be able to forge it. In reality, criminals often don’t take the time to practice signatures. They use cards as quickly as possible after a theft and prior to the accounts being blocked. They are actually counting on you not to look at the back of the card and compare signatures; they may even have access to counterfeit identification with a signature in their own handwriting.

> In this situation, follow recommended steps listed above under Unsigned Cards.

https://usa.visa.com/dam/VCOM/download/merchants/card-accept...

Re: Credit Card Signatures Are About to Become Extinct in the U.S

#100

Post by supertrope »

baddox wrote: post #36
matte_black wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of the time a signature isn’t for verification but rather for acknowledgment. I don’t give two shits what you put down as a signature, I just want a record that you consciously were present and signed something, so I don’t get accused of trying to pass off something quietly that you never agreed to. If I have some scribble you made at a time and place, the onus is on you to prove it wasn’t you who did that.

My recent apartment lease was delivered online, but required me to go through every page and click a button that filled in my initials in a cursive font. It’s silly, yes, but I’m sure it’s just there to “prove” that I acknowledged each page individually.

That's the e-equivalent of initialing every page of a contract. The cursive part is funny. Rituals change slowly. People trust moused signatures and fax machine timestamps more than RSA public keys.
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