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Credit Card Signatures Are About to Become Extinct in the U.S

nytimes.com

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Re: Credit Card Signatures Are About to Become Extinct in the U.S

#71

Post by sleet »

itakedrugs wrote: post #50
sleet wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It amazes me that cheques are still used. I'm 36 and I've never issued a cheque, I think I was issued a cheque book with my first account but never used it.

I'm 36 too but I've issued hundreds of checks... and also issued some indirectly (Bank of America's bill payments issue paper checks to companies when they don't accept electronic payments)

Probably the big difference is that I live in New Zealand. We've had good electronic funds transfers systems for a long time.

Re: Credit Card Signatures Are About to Become Extinct in the U.S

#72

Post by smelendez »

anitil wrote: post #19
blueside wrote: post #8

Signatures haven't been required for credit cards in many other countries for quite some time now. I have often wondered why the US has historically lagged behind for everyday banking. (e.g. email money transfers, chip enabled cards, pin number verification, tap to pay)

It's especially a mystery because even developments in payments from the US (eg Apple Pay) seem more widely adopted where I am (Aus) than in the US. Anyone with some insight as to why want to chip in?

In the US, the biggest adopters of Apple Pay have been big chain grocery, drug, convenience, etc. stores. For decades, there has been a (somewhat class-based) stigma about holding up the line in these kinds of places by paying with check, government benefits, coins, coupons, or anything else besides cash and credit.

There's also a separate, arguably more deserved stigma about entitled people causing trouble by using unnecessary technology.

These together, along with a reluctance to cause trouble for low-wage clerks, make people reluctant to risk holding up the line by using Apple Pay.

That means fewer people even try Apple Pay, so fewer other businesses see the need to make it available.

Re: Credit Card Signatures Are About to Become Extinct in the U.S

#74

Post by supertrope »

StillBored wrote: post #30

Actually, doing away with the signature seems a bit odd, given all the machine learning flying around. An electronic signature that records the speed strokes in the signature are made, as well as the final result, is probably a really good way of identifying the purchaser. Of course then a lot of the smaller merchants would have to upgrade their 90's era dial-up credit card processing.

Handwriting analysis was pseudo-scientific to begin with. The payments market has to accommodate illiterate customers, disabled customers, and people who have a broken hand at the moment.

CC networks currently use previous purchasing patterns, location, time of day, etc.

It's the same reasons why biometrics is not a magic security solution. Authentication must be based of something that's hard to fake, cheap to verify, random, and easy to change. What threshold would you set to balance false negatives and false positives? In comparison the private key in your chip card meets all of the criteria.

Re: Credit Card Signatures Are About to Become Extinct in the U.S

#76

Post by kibwen »

vaughanb wrote: post #46
anitil wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's especially a mystery because even developments in payments from the US (eg Apple Pay) seem more widely adopted where I am (Aus) than in the US. Anyone with some insight as to why want to chip in?

> ... chip in Unintentional pun. The US public seems to have a huge reluctance to use the chips in the cards too. It's swipe and sign. (I'm also from Australia and signing for a credit card purchase went away decades ago. PayWave is really popular, my 89 yo mother loves it.)

US here, got issued a chipped card about a year ago and noticed quickly that any attempt to swipe with my card would be greeted with an error message and instructions to insert the chip. For all systems I've seen, it seems that if the merchant accepts chips and if the card has a chip, the chip must be used, regardless of any user reluctance.

Re: Credit Card Signatures Are About to Become Extinct in the U.S

#77

Post by anitil »

vaughanb wrote: post #46
anitil wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's especially a mystery because even developments in payments from the US (eg Apple Pay) seem more widely adopted where I am (Aus) than in the US. Anyone with some insight as to why want to chip in?

> ... chip in Unintentional pun. The US public seems to have a huge reluctance to use the chips in the cards too. It's swipe and sign. (I'm also from Australia and signing for a credit card purchase went away decades ago. PayWave is really popular, my 89 yo mother loves it.)

Haha you got me!

Re: Credit Card Signatures Are About to Become Extinct in the U.S

#78

Post by supertrope »

sleet wrote: post #42
skookumchuck wrote: post #17

It turns out that a signature on a bank check means nothing. Neither does the payer name on the check. Not the amount in cursive. Nor does the check paper. The only things that are checked are the digits of the amount, and the account number. The rest of the check can be complete garbage, and the check will go through and the bank will pay it. Then the banks will blame you, the account holder. I learned this the hard…

It amazes me that cheques are still used. I'm 36 and I've never issued a cheque, I think I was issued a cheque book with my first account but never used it.

The payments clearinghouse in USA is in need of an upgrade but no one wants to pay for it or suffer any downtime or errors. Waiting up to three days is the reason why Paypal/Venmo, credit cards, cash and wire transfers are still so popular but these fast options can carry hefty fees. e.g. Credit cards skim 2% of businesses' revenue, ATMs can charge $3, and wire transfers are 25USD. Banks also benefit from the liquidity problems that can result - it's another reason to apply for credit or leave a larger cash reserve on deposit.

Re: Credit Card Signatures Are About to Become Extinct in the U.S

#79

Post by user5994461 »

baddox wrote: post #36
matte_black wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of the time a signature isn’t for verification but rather for acknowledgment. I don’t give two shits what you put down as a signature, I just want a record that you consciously were present and signed something, so I don’t get accused of trying to pass off something quietly that you never agreed to. If I have some scribble you made at a time and place, the onus is on you to prove it wasn’t you who did that.

My recent apartment lease was delivered online, but required me to go through every page and click a button that filled in my initials in a cursive font. It’s silly, yes, but I’m sure it’s just there to “prove” that I acknowledged each page individually.

It's the same as a paper contract.

Re: Credit Card Signatures Are About to Become Extinct in the U.S

#80

Post by samwillis »

macintux wrote: post #3

Now if we could only eliminate them for everything else. Buying and selling houses is excruciating thanks to the number of signatures required. I went to a closing on behalf of my then-wife who didn’t want to deal with it; because it was her house we were selling, I had to sign all the paperwork on her behalf, which involved a signature plus some additional verbiage. My hand was in pain by the time we were finished.

The U.K. has just had its first house purchase signed for using a digital signature for the land registry: https://www.computing.co.uk/ctg/news/3029651/hm-land-registr...
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