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Credit Card Signatures Are About to Become Extinct in the U.S

nytimes.com

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Re: Credit Card Signatures Are About to Become Extinct in the U.S

#51

Post by pmorici »

tehwebguy wrote: post #15
pmorici wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The kind of fraud prevented by a PIN enabled chip card is supposedly pretty rare. What would be more useful is a standard for browser attached chip card readers to bring the anti-fraud protections of a chip card to everyday Internet transactions.

If a PIN were required for credit transactions I bet fraud from cloned / stolen cards would drop to about zero.

Cloning is not possible with chip cards pin or no pin. That's the whole reason US issuers switched to chips from mag stripes.

Re: Credit Card Signatures Are About to Become Extinct in the U.S

#52

Post by jimktrains2 »

stevep98 wrote: post #29

There’s something missing from this article. When you sign a receipt, you’re not just providing a sample of your signature for comparison against the one on the card. You are signing a document, usually saying that ‘I agree to comply with the terms of the cardholder agreement’ If this is no longer necessary, the card issuers must have determined that they have other legal agreements which cover purchases, and that th…

You already made that agreement when you signed up for the credit card. You havn't needed a signature for _every_ purchase in a long long time. This is just getting rid of them all together.

Re: Credit Card Signatures Are About to Become Extinct in the U.S

#53

Post by Merad »

skookumchuck wrote: post #17

It turns out that a signature on a bank check means nothing. Neither does the payer name on the check. Not the amount in cursive. Nor does the check paper. The only things that are checked are the digits of the amount, and the account number. The rest of the check can be complete garbage, and the check will go through and the bank will pay it. Then the banks will blame you, the account holder. I learned this the hard…

For all intents your checking account is a locker full of money that’s unlocked for the taking. The check is nothing more than an archaic means of conveying your “locker number” to someone else’s bank. I highly recommend keeping your checking account balance as low as you can, and either disable overdraft protection on it or point the overdraft protection to a credit account.

The other info on the check isn’t meaningless. It will (should) be examined when there’s some kind of fraud or dispute about a check payment - but it effectively does nothing to prevent fraud or theft.

Re: Credit Card Signatures Are About to Become Extinct in the U.S

#54

Post by kondro »

u801e wrote: post #4

It would be nice if they would start requiring a PIN.

In Australia, all in-person card transactions above the $100 PayWave/PayPass limit require PINs.

Fraud cause from in-person transactions is very low and hence our merchant fees are also very low. 10-20¢ for debit transactions and approx. 1.2% for credit transactions.

Re: Credit Card Signatures Are About to Become Extinct in the U.S

#55

Post by StillBored »

cryptoz wrote: post #38
StillBored wrote: post #30

Actually, doing away with the signature seems a bit odd, given all the machine learning flying around. An electronic signature that records the speed strokes in the signature are made, as well as the final result, is probably a really good way of identifying the purchaser. Of course then a lot of the smaller merchants would have to upgrade their 90's era dial-up credit card processing.

> An electronic signature that records the speed strokes in the signature are made, as well as the final result, is probably a really good way of identifying the purchaser. Not so sure about that. If I use a different mouse then my "signature" using those metrics will fail, as I'm basically a completely different (inept) person using other mice. Just an example, but I don't think that e-signatures can be trusted by u…

Yes, part of it would require some level of standardization of the electronic pad/pen.

I'm not really suggesting it as "trust" thing, but a better "pin" code that could be combined with the current shopping history/etc metrics being used to detect fraud.

Re: Credit Card Signatures Are About to Become Extinct in the U.S

#56

Post by amanzi »

u801e wrote: post #4

It would be nice if they would start requiring a PIN.

Here in NZ we don't sign for credit card transactions - I can't remember the last time I had to sign. Instead you insert your card into the reader and use your PIN to verify the transaction. And if the card reader has contactless payments (PayWave, PayPass, etc) then you don't even need your PIN for transactions less than $80.

Re: Credit Card Signatures Are About to Become Extinct in the U.S

#57

Post by skookumchuck »

matte_black wrote: post #23
skookumchuck wrote: post #17

It turns out that a signature on a bank check means nothing. Neither does the payer name on the check. Not the amount in cursive. Nor does the check paper. The only things that are checked are the digits of the amount, and the account number. The rest of the check can be complete garbage, and the check will go through and the bank will pay it. Then the banks will blame you, the account holder. I learned this the hard…

What happened next? Don’t want to try it.

I wouldn't accept their evasions and eventually they gave up and credited me.

Re: Credit Card Signatures Are About to Become Extinct in the U.S

#58

Post by jjeaff »

stevep98 wrote: post #29

There’s something missing from this article. When you sign a receipt, you’re not just providing a sample of your signature for comparison against the one on the card. You are signing a document, usually saying that ‘I agree to comply with the terms of the cardholder agreement’ If this is no longer necessary, the card issuers must have determined that they have other legal agreements which cover purchases, and that th…

Where does it say on the receipt that I am agreeing to the cardholder agreement?

This sounds like the old myth that "if you don't sign the back of your card, you can't be held liable for the debts you incur if you contest it later."

This is of course not true.

Re: Credit Card Signatures Are About to Become Extinct in the U.S

#59

Post by mrfusion »

paul7986 wrote: post #11

Also please make handing me a receipt extinct too or only if requested. Especially at drive thru(s) where the receipts become trash I later have to do work .. aka clean up this annoying trash in my car.

More importantly it’s your primary source of bpa exposure.

Re: Credit Card Signatures Are About to Become Extinct in the U.S

#60

Post by seanmcdirmid »

amanzi wrote: post #56
u801e wrote: post #4

It would be nice if they would start requiring a PIN.

Here in NZ we don't sign for credit card transactions - I can't remember the last time I had to sign. Instead you insert your card into the reader and use your PIN to verify the transaction. And if the card reader has contactless payments (PayWave, PayPass, etc) then you don't even need your PIN for transactions less than $80.

Are you sure those are credit card (e.g. Master Card) and not debit (e.g. Maestro) transactions? I’ve noticed outside the USA credit cards are used very rarely while debit cards are used very heavily.

In the USA, we have to sign at most places for any transaction over $50, but not under.

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