The Subway Is So Late, It’s Making New Yorkers Early • Hacker News Board

Re: The Subway Is So Late, It’s Making New Yorkers Early

#141

Post by ndespres » Mon, Apr 09, 2018, 1:07 AM UTC

lallysingh wrote: post #68

ndespres wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've just begun commuting into NYC on Amtrak, and it leaves on time to the [i]second[/i]. After years of my commute impacted by subway delays, NJ Transit delays, and an independent ferry service that had its share of problems, Amtrak is really quite refreshing. I had forgotten that things were supposed to be on a schedule! I lived in NYC for 5 years, and had no idea that the subways were on a fixed schedule. I though…

That's odd. I commute by njtransit, but my station is also an Amtrak station, and I often hear of massive (30-90 min) delays.

The stations shared by NJ Transit and Amtrak are both coming in on the tunnel under the Hudson, which has limited capacity and delays both trains, though I understand that usually Amtrak gets priority. Just another headache of the Port Authority of NJ, NY, the MTA, Amtrak and whoever else fighting to get in to Penn Station.

I commute now from Albany where there's no tunnel, we are east of the Hudson the whole time and nobody to fight with to get in to Penn (except when, due to every other train having delays getting OUT of Penn there are sometimes no free tracks to come in on, but this is rare).

Re: The Subway Is So Late, It’s Making New Yorkers Early

#142

Post by apaprocki » Mon, Apr 09, 2018, 1:11 AM UTC

tokyoguy wrote: post #131

peter303 wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The system is a century old with original electromechanical controllers.

that is no excuse. it's called maintenance. other cities manage to maintain their transit system . NYC has zero excuse . See Tokyo's transit history for how often they've upgrade the entire system a piece at a time.

... and do most of those upgrades take place when the Tokyo subway shuts down each night between 1am and 5am? It's hard to replace signal systems on tracks with a train passing every few minutes.

Re: The Subway Is So Late, It’s Making New Yorkers Early

#143

Post by tokyoguy » Mon, Apr 09, 2018, 1:13 AM UTC

it's frustrating to read this thread and watch people make excuses for NYC . NYC is not special. Tokyo has old subways 3-4x the stations and 10x the riders. They manage to rebuild , change tracks, build new ones and generally do the maintainence and upkeep required to keep it running well and on time.

NYC's issues are entirely about politics and leadership and nothing to do with anything unique to NYC

que more excuses

Re: The Subway Is So Late, It’s Making New Yorkers Early

#144

Post by yardie » Mon, Apr 09, 2018, 1:18 AM UTC

ng12 wrote: post #33

gsnedders wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does the London Underground mostly run to schedule, though, then? Because it's older, arguably as complex (especially the subsurface railway), and not that far below NYC in ridership…

The biggest difference is the Tube doesn't run 24/7. You have a guaranteed maintenance cycle. Also my understanding is that European unions are less corrupt than American ones.

Why are American unions singled out to be maligned? French unions will kidnap their boss if negotiations breakdown. American strikers have been fired upon by the local police.

I get it, you’ve driven a poorly made American car once and it your blaming the union workers who built it. Not the factory managers, not the engineers who design with poor tolerances, not the accountants who choose cheap, poor material.

I’ve met unionized school teachers who get fired in June and rehired in August. Why? So the schoolboard won’t have to pay mandatory cost of living increases that the union negotiated for. Better to pay teachers less every year.

Re: The Subway Is So Late, It’s Making New Yorkers Early

#145

Post by dmode » Mon, Apr 09, 2018, 1:18 AM UTC

jorblumesea wrote: post #6

I'm confused as to why the US seems to fail or fall so far behind in infrastructure compared to other developed nations. It seems that we throw money at our problems but seemingly get nowhere. It's sad because there's many amazing things about this country, but we cannot do basic things like make trains run on time.

I may be totally wrong, but I believe that the core of the problem is that a lot of infrastructure here is funded by local and regional governments. And they simply don't have the massive funds and resources of a Federal government, which leads to always have to raise funds for a project through a measure and then having to cut corners. Many other nations fund infrastructure projects centrally and that leads to more efficiency.

Re: The Subway Is So Late, It’s Making New Yorkers Early

#146

Post by CydeWeys » Mon, Apr 09, 2018, 1:22 AM UTC

mancerayder wrote: post #138

CydeWeys wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The New York City subway system is old, one of the first in the world. It's not built to modern standards; in a lot of places it was built by cut-and-cover, which means excavating the entire route along the subway and then rebuilding the road essentially as a roof above the subway line. As a result of this lineage it also has quite frequent stops, which are easy to put in when the subway is just a stairway's height b…

One of the first is a stretch, because the most compared lines were around or before NY's experience. The London Underground had its first line in 1863. Paris, 1900. NY, 1904.

Maybe we should say "metro system" then, as NYC's first el train was 36 years prior to its first subway.

This table has the subway at the world's ninth oldest, which is definitely still one of the oldest considering there's hundreds now: https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/the-world-s-oldest-metro...

Re: The Subway Is So Late, It’s Making New Yorkers Early

#147

Post by Bahamut » Mon, Apr 09, 2018, 1:23 AM UTC

wgerard wrote: post #103

heliodor wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "it's mostly a problem caused by the sheer population density" That might seem like the obvious reason, but it's not the case at all. Read up on the NYC subway and its recent problems and their causes. Politicians use the growth in ridership as a scapegoat. There's more to the story than that. There's no physical/mathematical reason why a metro system of a bigger scale is precluded from running well. Here's an arti…

Sorry, I meant that the experience for riders becomes miserable because of the population density (the third paragraph). If delays just meant waiting on an uncrowded platform for an uncrowded train, it wouldn't be nearly as much of a sore point. I certainly agree with you that population density isn't the root cause of the recent subway issues - as evidenced by the fact that Tokyo's train system is working just fine.

As someone who currently is on a train to Osaka from Tokyo & who has lived near NYC, one thing I can say is while Tokyo’s system is well run, the rush hour crunch is real - basically everyone is nut to butt on the train. Sometimes you can’t even get on the train and have to wait for the next one.

Re: The Subway Is So Late, It’s Making New Yorkers Early

#148

Post by CydeWeys » Mon, Apr 09, 2018, 1:25 AM UTC

skeleton wrote: post #139

CydeWeys wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I purposely live within easy biking distance of the office for this reason, which I'll admit is a luxury that not everyone can afford. Fortunately tech pays well. Between my own bike and Citi Bike I can get everywhere I need to without relying on any form of mass transportation. Biking is frequently the fastest form of transportation, depending start/end point of the trip anyway. It certainly is for my daily commute.

While there are very strong benefits to commuting on a bicycle, a motorcycle will likely be the faster method of commute transport. Although this is probably dependent on your local laws and how much you abide by those laws, as I know lane filtering and such is illegal in a lot of the US.

Not in Manhattan though, and definitely not along my commute. Motorcycles are about as slow as the cars. There isn't room for a full motorcycle to filter through the narrow space between the row of parked cars and the line of slow-moving traffic. Hell, sometimes there's barely room to slip through on a bicycle. And it's flat out illegal for motorcyclists to ride in the bike lane.

But yeah, this is more of a special case than generally applicable to most places. On your typical suburban commute you can definitely save time by filtering between rows of parked cars at lights. That just doesn't work here very well.

Re: The Subway Is So Late, It’s Making New Yorkers Early

#149

Post by lotsofpulp » Mon, Apr 09, 2018, 1:30 AM UTC

scarface74 wrote: post #112

Just to put things in perspective. https://www.moneycrashers.com/worst-us-cities-traffic-commut... I've been commuting (by car) for 30-60 minutes one way depending on my job for 20+ years in Atlanta. I didn't realize that a 30 minute commute was considered "bad". It really doesn't bother me. I put on a podcast and enjoy the downtime. I also don't have young kids. When my 15 year old son has to stay late and I can't g…

The idea of spending all weekday hours working and "cherishing" weekends is terrible to me. If I can't go out on any weeknight and enjoy time with friends or family due to having to commute, then I'm looking for a change.

Re: The Subway Is So Late, It’s Making New Yorkers Early

#150

Post by mancerayder » Mon, Apr 09, 2018, 1:33 AM UTC

CydeWeys wrote: post #146

mancerayder wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the first is a stretch, because the most compared lines were around or before NY's experience. The London Underground had its first line in 1863. Paris, 1900. NY, 1904.

Maybe we should say "metro system" then, as NYC's first el train was 36 years prior to its first subway. This table has the subway at the world's ninth oldest, which is definitely still one of the oldest considering there's hundreds now: https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/the-world-s-oldest-metro...

Agreed, although I'd add it's substantially more complicated to dug tunnels under dense cities. The Underground is a substantial feat in that regard.

As a tangent, London is adding overground trains as part of its expansion. The Overground is pretty recent (and it shows) as is the fully-automated DLR, and now there's a Crossrail making an appearance. NY hasn't invested in a hell of a lot in overground infrastructure and it feels like that's a logical step in the outer boroughs.