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The enemy within: Gut bacteria drive autoimmune disease

sciencedaily.com

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Re: The enemy within: Gut bacteria drive autoimmune disease

#21

Post by _tulpa »

throwaway5752 wrote: post #13
eloff wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, she and my dad just did their own research online and gave it a try. Seems to have worked out really well for her. Her goiter shrank and she had to reduce her thyroid meds. Low dose doxycycline seems who tolerated, and has an interesting side effect of reducing inflammation to near zero in the body (CRP levels of actually zero). Given the role of inflammation in heart disease, that might be helpful for longevity…

This is why we have drug resistant bacteria, in a nutshell. Glad your mother's health is better, but if even a small number of people started following this regimen, it would be come useless in a relatively small number of years. edit: I would love it if just one person could tell me how I'm wrong instead of downvoting. Long term low dose antibiotic treatment (doxy is a tetracycline) is how this happens. If you look…

So... People shouldn't use drugs that work for them because the bacteria will develop drug resistance to the drugs which are already useless because you can't use them otherwise the bacteria will become resistant?

Re: The enemy within: Gut bacteria drive autoimmune disease

#22

Post by JoshMnem »

cyrusshepard wrote: post #18

If anyone is interested in a way to treat E. gallinarum—and other potentially pathogens—without antibiotics, you should look into phage therapy. Phages are viruses that attack specific bacteria, have been used for decades, are commercially available (even on Amazon) and are generally considered safe for human consumption. Granted, phage therapy typically targets gut pathogens, and in this study the E. gallinarum had…

Do you know where to find more information on that? (If you would be willing to answer a few questions about it, my email address is on my profile.)

Re: The enemy within: Gut bacteria drive autoimmune disease

#23

Post by smallnamespace »

throwaway5752 wrote: post #13
eloff wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, she and my dad just did their own research online and gave it a try. Seems to have worked out really well for her. Her goiter shrank and she had to reduce her thyroid meds. Low dose doxycycline seems who tolerated, and has an interesting side effect of reducing inflammation to near zero in the body (CRP levels of actually zero). Given the role of inflammation in heart disease, that might be helpful for longevity…

This is why we have drug resistant bacteria, in a nutshell. Glad your mother's health is better, but if even a small number of people started following this regimen, it would be come useless in a relatively small number of years. edit: I would love it if just one person could tell me how I'm wrong instead of downvoting. Long term low dose antibiotic treatment (doxy is a tetracycline) is how this happens. If you look…

Not sure why you're getting downvoted actually.

Yes, this treatment can probably help some people, but it's probably also true that deploying this en masse would not be a great idea from a long-term ecological perspective.

Low-dose antibiotics are already widely used today in farm animals because it lets them gain weight more quickly ( = more profit for the farmer). And now the bacteria have spread out of farms and into the ER rooms and are killing people. Another form of socialized externalities.

Re: The enemy within: Gut bacteria drive autoimmune disease

#24

Post by smallnamespace »

_tulpa wrote: post #21
throwaway5752 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why we have drug resistant bacteria, in a nutshell. Glad your mother's health is better, but if even a small number of people started following this regimen, it would be come useless in a relatively small number of years. edit: I would love it if just one person could tell me how I'm wrong instead of downvoting. Long term low dose antibiotic treatment (doxy is a tetracycline) is how this happens. If you look…

So... People shouldn't use drugs that work for them because the bacteria will develop drug resistance to the drugs which are already useless because you can't use them otherwise the bacteria will become resistant?

Just because there are some bacteria that are already resistant to doxy doesn't mean that shifting the entire ecology of human bacteria so that resistance against doxy is selected for is a great idea.

If you have a garden and use pesticides, there are probably some weeds that will be resistant to it. But the mere existence of resistant weeds is not an argument for continued indiscriminate use of pesticides, as you will end up with even more. Degree matters.

Re: The enemy within: Gut bacteria drive autoimmune disease

#25

Post by cyrusshepard »

amelius wrote: post #20
cyrusshepard wrote: post #18

If anyone is interested in a way to treat E. gallinarum—and other potentially pathogens—without antibiotics, you should look into phage therapy. Phages are viruses that attack specific bacteria, have been used for decades, are commercially available (even on Amazon) and are generally considered safe for human consumption. Granted, phage therapy typically targets gut pathogens, and in this study the E. gallinarum had…

Sounds interesting, but how would you know which species to attack?

Most commercial phages in the US (can't speak for the rest of the world) are comprised of these 4:

LH01 – Myoviridae LL5 – Siphoviridae T4D Myoviridae LL12 – Myoviridae

You can research all of these, but these 4 specifically target a specific but broad range of potentially pathogenic bacteria, including E. Coli (though not all E. Coli is bad) and other species. Generally if you take them together they provide effective treatment against a broad range of inflammatory agents.

Disclaimer: Not a doctor, just someone who suffered decades of gut problems and eventually healed himself.

Re: The enemy within: Gut bacteria drive autoimmune disease

#26

Post by smallnamespace »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #16
sound1 wrote: post #11

I went to an ayurvedic doctor (in India, my friend insisted) and he said the exact same thing. He even said all allergy problems arise because of issuees in the digestive tract. At the time I thought he was just saying it but who knows there might be some truth in what he said.

> I went to an ayurvedic doctor “Ayurveda medicine is considered pseudoscientific” [1]. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayurveda third paragraph

Unfortunately, we're not at the point where science possesses a monopoly on working medicine.

Believing that every pre-scientific practice is pure hocus-pocus that should be rejected out of hand seems to be a strange conceit.

Re: The enemy within: Gut bacteria drive autoimmune disease

#27

Post by throwaway5752 »

smallnamespace wrote: post #23
throwaway5752 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why we have drug resistant bacteria, in a nutshell. Glad your mother's health is better, but if even a small number of people started following this regimen, it would be come useless in a relatively small number of years. edit: I would love it if just one person could tell me how I'm wrong instead of downvoting. Long term low dose antibiotic treatment (doxy is a tetracycline) is how this happens. If you look…

Not sure why you're getting downvoted actually. Yes, this treatment can probably help some people, but it's probably also true that deploying this en masse would not be a great idea from a long-term ecological perspective. Low-dose antibiotics are already widely used today in farm animals because it lets them gain weight more quickly ( = more profit for the farmer). And now the bacteria have spread out of farms and i…

I found a few NIH papers after posting, and it appears the available data shows it doesn't result in drug resistance at these dosages. There are a few studies that tracked resistance among patient populations for several years and saw fewer changes than periodic high doses. I don't know.

Re: The enemy within: Gut bacteria drive autoimmune disease

#28

Post by paulie_a »

sound1 wrote: post #11

I went to an ayurvedic doctor (in India, my friend insisted) and he said the exact same thing. He even said all allergy problems arise because of issuees in the digestive tract. At the time I thought he was just saying it but who knows there might be some truth in what he said.

> ayurvedic doctor

So not a real doctor

Re: The enemy within: Gut bacteria drive autoimmune disease

#29

Post by JumpCrisscross »

smallnamespace wrote: post #26
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I went to an ayurvedic doctor “Ayurveda medicine is considered pseudoscientific” [1]. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayurveda third paragraph

Unfortunately, we're not at the point where science possesses a monopoly on working medicine. Believing that every pre-scientific practice is pure hocus-pocus that should be rejected out of hand seems to be a strange conceit.

> we're not at the point where science possesses a monopoly on working medicine

Science is the best mechanism we’ve found for developing towards truth.

> Believing that every pre-scientific practice is pure hocus-pocus that should be rejected out of hand seems to be a strange conceit

Red herring. I’m not saying it should be dismissed for research purposes. It is a pseudoscience because its practitioners make unfounded, and in certain cases false, claims.

Re: The enemy within: Gut bacteria drive autoimmune disease

#30

Post by etiam »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #16
sound1 wrote: post #11

I went to an ayurvedic doctor (in India, my friend insisted) and he said the exact same thing. He even said all allergy problems arise because of issuees in the digestive tract. At the time I thought he was just saying it but who knows there might be some truth in what he said.

> I went to an ayurvedic doctor “Ayurveda medicine is considered pseudoscientific” [1]. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayurveda third paragraph

> “Ayurveda medicine is considered pseudoscientific” [1].

I'm sure it is. By whom and why? And more to the point, is it right in this case, regardless of its scientific status.

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