Live data from Hacker News

Airbus and Boeing are exploring the viability of electric planes

phys.org

81–90 of 149 posts

Re: Airbus and Boeing are exploring the viability of electric planes

#81

side note: a few companies are also bringing back zeppelin, so far for freight/cargon (10s of tons) but also but slow public transport. Hindenburg drama aside, I find them superbly peaceful. see: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxotOEZCh8g

With a remote work arrangement it would be lovely to travel by Zeppelin (or ship, or train, for that matter).

Re: Airbus and Boeing are exploring the viability of electric planes

#82

side note: a few companies are also bringing back zeppelin, so far for freight/cargon (10s of tons) but also but slow public transport. Hindenburg drama aside, I find them superbly peaceful. see: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxotOEZCh8g

With a remote work arrangement it would be lovely to travel by Zeppelin (or ship, or train, for that matter).

you mean slow moving working space ?

Re: Airbus and Boeing are exploring the viability of electric planes

#83
post #10

Norway is in an ideal position; a surplus from oil money and excessive access to hydro power. I would hope they can use their current oil prosperity to prepare for a hydro (and other green energy) powered future, in all kinds of new places. After I typed that I realized that the whole world could be said to be in oil prosperity still, so the same applies to us all: with less evenly distributed oil prosperity, and not…

But that will never happen in the USA due to the influence of the oil industry.

I doubt it. My observation is that if there is an enormous amount of money to be made disrupting an established industry with practical tech, it happens. Money trumps law in many cases.

E.g. Uber

Re: Airbus and Boeing are exploring the viability of electric planes

#84
post #24

As a first step, they could make at least the take off and landing electric, that would help a lot with the noise and pollution around cities, i.e. where people live. I guess the batteries could be recharged during the flight for landing.

If you compare to hybrid cars, landing is more like braking to a stop light (unless you need to gun it again to abort the landing). Takeoff is like accelerating from a stoplight (where you need the most power). If electric could take over at any point, it would be in the steady cruise at altitude (akin to overdrive on the highway).

Re: Airbus and Boeing are exploring the viability of electric planes

#85
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Takeoff is the hardest part requiring the most power, unfortunately.

> Takeoff is the hardest part requiring the most power, unfortunately. So, we just need a catapult system for commercial aircraft (like used on aircraft carriers, only lower acceleration since you are doing it to reduce the amount of energy needed from the engines, not to shorten the take-off distance.)

Why not something similar to railgun but at a slower speed.

This would involve few things on the plane.

The draw back is that airports needs to install this system.

During take off, if there is a problem, the system could be stopped.

Perhaps it's not usable in this context ?

Re: Airbus and Boeing are exploring the viability of electric planes

#86
post #77

It’s just a question of the energy density of batteries vs. fuel. We need a couple more battery breakthroughs before we get a fully electric commercial airliner.

There is more than that. Planes become lighter as they burn fuel, batteries don't become lighter as they drain. Lighter planes are more efficient, and most airliners are not designed to land with their tanks full. They have a option to jettison their fuel in case of emergency. It means that just matching the energy density of fuel is not enough, batteries must exceed it. Jet engines are also quite efficient: around 4…

> batteries don't become lighter as they drain.

Right, but they can be thrown overboard :-)

Re: Airbus and Boeing are exploring the viability of electric planes

#87
post #64

It’s just a question of the energy density of batteries vs. fuel. We need a couple more battery breakthroughs before we get a fully electric commercial airliner.

You also expel all that burnt fuel reducing weight was you fly. Some aircraft even redistribute fuel between tanks to control stability and performance. [0] [0] https://www.amevoice.com/blog/1058/airbus-a340-fuel-system-d...

> Some aircraft even redistribute fuel between tanks to control stability and performance.

Aircraft have been doing that forever. Carefully managing the fuel flow from which tank has always been a task for the pilot.

Re: Airbus and Boeing are exploring the viability of electric planes

#88

It’s just a question of the energy density of batteries vs. fuel. We need a couple more battery breakthroughs before we get a fully electric commercial airliner.

Short high-traffic routes might be viable sooner. For instance, the Dublin-London route has 14,500 flights per year (highest in Europe), crossing about 400km. Mostly 737-sized planes, flying a tiny fraction of their full range. There are a number of similarly short/frequent routes in Asia. A specialized electric plane for this type of route would save a lot of CO2 emissions, and could come long before p, say, viable transatlantic electric planes.

Re: Airbus and Boeing are exploring the viability of electric planes

#89

side note: a few companies are also bringing back zeppelin, so far for freight/cargon (10s of tons) but also but slow public transport. Hindenburg drama aside, I find them superbly peaceful. see: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxotOEZCh8g

I can totally see them in helicopter-like roles for heavy cargo. I have my doubts about the viability of public transport.

In the times of the Hindenburg the zeppelin was already becoming obsolete. If you wanted comfort ships could provide much more because weight was a major issue for zeppelin interiours, and if you wanted speed planes were already several times faster. The high number of crew combined with slow speeds (i.e. long travel times) meant that zepellin tickets weren't cheaper than either of the two alternatives.

With both ships and planes significanlty better than 80 years ago I don't see how economics should be more in favour of zepellins now. There's novelty value, but that didn't keep the Concorde flying either.

Re: Airbus and Boeing are exploring the viability of electric planes

#90
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d actually suggest the opposite. Planes cuuently need overpowered engines just for take off

It will still never make sense until battery energy density increases a lot more. Boost power for takeoff is still going to be cheaper weight-wise burning kerosene than with electric batteries.

How much of a Tesla‘s battery is drained after a drag race? Electric seems to be quite good at delivering boost. See also the current generation of supercars from Porsche, Ferrari and McLaren.
Post reply on HN