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Ask HN: Are there any reasonable alternatives to MacBook Pro for developer?

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Re: Ask HN: Are there any reasonable alternatives to MacBook Pro for developer?

#141
I bought a Sager (customized Clevo chassis) in 2010, and have just replaced it about a month ago with another Sager. My needs are somewhat different than pure editing/sw dev. I do quite a bit of analytics, visualization, and some CUDA bits. I could build a deskside (I generally prefer them), but I need to take my workstation with me.

Apart from $dayjob MBP, all my laptops/servers run Linux. So Linux compatibility is a must. Things which don't work should be unimportant to me (fingerprint reader). I use Linux Mint, as I don't want to be messing around with my primary machine, and everything just works with it. Best Linux desktop experience I've had in 18 years of running Linux desktops.

I opted for Sager/Clevo platform because of research, reviews, etc. I'll talk Dell, HP, and Toshiba below (which I've also owned).

Clevo platforms are mostly end user upgradable and servicable, so if you need more of something, with a screwdriver and some patience, you can add it. This probably doesn't make sense for the people whom are concerned about damaging their machines, though as someone whom has built machines for ~30 years now, this is old hat to me.

My 2010 model has 16GB ram, i7 quad core, NVidia GTX 560m , and now a SATA SSD, along with a PCI gigabit ethernet port, some sort of intel wifi card. It was showing its age, in that the GPU (on an MXM card) was starting to fail under load. I replaced CPU/GPU fans, cleaned the unit, though failure events are increasing, and the gigabit occasionally isn't recognized on boot.

Add to that this it runs hot and loud. The fans are always on, and slightly more than a whisper during idle. During heavy load, it can be loud. Not ideal for my situation. No usable effective battery life, call it about an hour if I am lucky. Screen resolution is 1920x1080 or something. I had plugged it into an old monitor on my desk (recently replaced with a HiBP 3.8k x 2.xk) and it ran 1920x1200 nicely.

It is heavy. And the battery clips don't keep the battery secure in the machine. So there's that.

I looked again in great depth at the options. Here is where I talk about my Dell experiences.

Every single Dell laptop I have ever bought, every single one, has had the infamous "unknown power supply" bug, which has only been curable by a motherboard replacement. These were high end workstations (4100), mid range consumer, and cheap consumer units.

The take-away. I cannot and will not recommend Dell. I will actively recommend against Dell. Their build quality generally sucks. Their ability to survive more than a year before needing a motherboard replacement is lacking. Their cases and keyboards are a bad joke. They are bulky, annoying, and not serviceable by mere mortals.

Linux sort of/kind of works on Dells. Not really, but hey, they market a ubuntu laptop.

HP has generally been reasonable, usually offering some insanely interesting combinations of things at good prices, but then making other choices on the same platform which require you hack crap hard to make the thing work. I loved my big HP laptop. I hated that it used a NIC that only had windows drivers. This was back in the PCMCIA days, and I was able to find workable pcmcia NICs and modems (yeah, really dating myself there ...).

I bought my wife and daughter Toshiba units one year to replace their failed Dells. Toshiba failed within 9 months of acquisition. Not serviceable, and Toshiba wouldn't honor its warranty. So, out to the dumpster with those.

We bought a pair of Samsung laptops to replace those. Nice specs but cheap plastic case, and both eventually died with chassis fractures.

By this time, I had had it with windows (7 pro) and its insanely broken networking. I gave them a choice on their next laptops: either Macs or Linux machines, as I was refusing to support windows any more. They played with my work MBP (linux at home on my laptop, MBP for work) and linux box. Chose MBP.

Cost me a bit more, but it just works (as do the linux boxen). Nearing the end of life for these units, and they are looking at new ones in a few months.

Short of it is, for their work, mostly editing, web stuff, etc. MBP is fine. Similar to SW dev in many ways (and daughter is getting into SW dev in college), so this works out well.

For heavy computation, analysis, visualization, my new unit is quite nice.

Sager NP8156. I upgraded from 16GB to 48GB ram (I run lots of VMs), and upgraded the WD 250GB SSD to 1.5TB of SSD. NVidia GTX 1060 with 6GB ram. USB C and USB3, integrated PCIe based NICs, good wireless. Easy to service. Runs linux mint 18.3 on a 3.8k x 2.x k monitor at high res. Even under load, it is quite quiet.

Downsides: 1) I didn't opt for the higher end display on the laptop itself. 2) Battery life isn't great (2 hours).

I brought it with me on a business trip to Korea a few weeks ago, for some of my dev/testing work, alongside my $dayjob MBP with emojibar (can't stand that thing). Better overall experience. I used it as a NAT/router for the team there with me, while running on it myself.

What would make it better would be a better screen res and a better battery. Otherwise, for me, its a perfect workstation replacement unit.

Re: Ask HN: Are there any reasonable alternatives to MacBook Pro for developer?

#142

A warning about Dell XPS (13") screens: if you take the matte display and like coding with dark color schemes it's horrible (but there might be a fix). It does loose all contrast on dark images. Saving battery they brighten the displayed image and lower the back light. This lowers 100% white to maybe a 80% white and makes for horrible contrast. For those affected: - you can test if you have this issue here: http://ty…

I had a similar problem with an HP ProBook 650 that I bought a few years ago. The laptop was reasonable in most ways, but the matte screen is so dim that it's barely usable.

Re: Ask HN: Are there any reasonable alternatives to MacBook Pro for developer?

#144
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was able to custom-configure the XPS 13 with a non-touch display and 16GB here: http://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/dell-laptops/xps-13/spd/xps-1... (US link) I run repair shops for a living, and I'd certainly recommend the XPS 13 over a HP. The build quality of the HP Envy laptops we get in are terrible. The XPS 13 is just a better laptop.

Thanks for the info. They must have added that more recently. I noticed the same thing in Hong Kong where the 16GB 1080p option only became available after my last trip there. Just checked the Japan website, it still only has 16GB and/or 512GB with 4K touch. Sucks to hear about the Envy.

I don't believe Envy vs XPS is apples to apples, HP's Spectre laptops probably compare more favorably in terms of build quality. Have you looked into that line at all?

Re: Ask HN: Are there any reasonable alternatives to MacBook Pro for developer?

#145
post #89

I switched from a 2014 13" Retina MBP to a 2018 Thinkpad X1 Carbon (6th gen) and I'm extremely happy with it. https://www.notebookcheck.net/Lenovo-ThinkPad-X1-Carbon-2018... is the most objective/detailed review I've seen. One of my biggest anxieties was the fear of "upgrading" to an inferior device after a decade of being on Apple devices. Thankfully, that has not been the case. - The 14" WQHD HDR screen is remarkab…

What version of Linux would people recommend for this machine ? 2018 Thinkpad X1 Carbon (6th gen)

I read a review about running OpenBSD on them last night. It’s probably wide open to anything.

Re: Ask HN: Are there any reasonable alternatives to MacBook Pro for developer?

#146

I recent got a 15 inch Dell Precision. I’m running a recent Ubuntu. I don’t recommend. It constantly throttles the CPI. I get lots of PCIe recoverable errors. The USB bus runs out of available throughout. Plugging anything Displaylink is a disaster. The camera/microphone is below the screen, which sucks more than I expected. It takes 2 hands to open the laptop. It is possible to plug in the power supply such that com…

Interesting. I've purchased two batches of Mobile Precisions in the past: one about 8 years ago, and another about 4 years ago. (Sorry, I can't remember the particular models.)

Both of them had really good Ubuntu compatibility.

Re: Ask HN: Are there any reasonable alternatives to MacBook Pro for developer?

#147
post #89

I switched from a 2014 13" Retina MBP to a 2018 Thinkpad X1 Carbon (6th gen) and I'm extremely happy with it. https://www.notebookcheck.net/Lenovo-ThinkPad-X1-Carbon-2018... is the most objective/detailed review I've seen. One of my biggest anxieties was the fear of "upgrading" to an inferior device after a decade of being on Apple devices. Thankfully, that has not been the case. - The 14" WQHD HDR screen is remarkab…

What version of Linux would people recommend for this machine ? 2018 Thinkpad X1 Carbon (6th gen)

If you want something practical and productive right out of the box then just go with Ubuntu for any hardware.

Thinkpads are popular in the Arch community (and vice versa), so there's discussion and documentation available if that's your cup of tea.

Re: Ask HN: Are there any reasonable alternatives to MacBook Pro for developer?

#148
post #89

I switched from a 2014 13" Retina MBP to a 2018 Thinkpad X1 Carbon (6th gen) and I'm extremely happy with it. https://www.notebookcheck.net/Lenovo-ThinkPad-X1-Carbon-2018... is the most objective/detailed review I've seen. One of my biggest anxieties was the fear of "upgrading" to an inferior device after a decade of being on Apple devices. Thankfully, that has not been the case. - The 14" WQHD HDR screen is remarkab…

2018 X1 Carbon user here. I fully agree with your review. Emphasize on the keyboard thing. I'm about to start a book catalyzed by the mechanical pleasure of pressing.

Re: Ask HN: Are there any reasonable alternatives to MacBook Pro for developer?

#149
The Lenovo X1 Carbon is great and the Costco deal mentioned below made me really think about it, but 1080p screen is just not great these days and really constrains working screen real estate.

Have you considered Google Pixelbook? 16GB RAM, 512GB drive, 7th gen i7 and a beautiful design for ~$1700.

I’ve used crouton on an older Pixel and loved it.

Re: Ask HN: Are there any reasonable alternatives to MacBook Pro for developer?

#150
post #87

Not a hardware req, but I've recently become quite enamored with Win 10 + WSL (Windows Subsystem for Linux) after years of using a Mac. WSL lets you run a lightweight Linux shell (Ubuntu, SUSE, Kali are supported atm) without a VM. It's purely for command-line purposes, no X, but that's fine for me. Windows for UI, then I can run all my bash in the Ubuntu shell almost seamlessly. You can run the shell directly from s…

Years and years ago I used an X server on Windows named Hummingbird I think, could you use a native x server for Windows and run e.g. xterms under WsL?

Yes. I use Xming with it.
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