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Middle-Class Families Increasingly Look to Community Colleges

nytimes.com

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Re: Middle-Class Families Increasingly Look to Community Colleges

#71

Post by Retric »

wil421 wrote: post #53
maxerickson wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having a year (or more) of college credits upon high school graduation should be one of the education tracks available to every student. It's a massive failure of imagination that this isn't already the case.

Why should you have to get credits before you leave High School? Just teach more advanced subjects in both High School and College. I agree with what you are saying but I think it’s a product of a failure somewhere else in the education system. No child left behind and other programs hinder education by applying one size fits all policies.

Students are not equally skilled. The majority of students are not really a collage level English and History and Math and Art class starting in 11th grade, though a significant number could take a subset of those.

Simply making High School arbitrarily harder is kind of meaningless if most students would fail the material.

Re: Middle-Class Families Increasingly Look to Community Colleges

#72

Post by scarface74 »

bogomipz wrote: post #51
scarface74 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does the community college need to be "good"? Mostly you take classes there that have nothing to do with your major.

Isn't that kind of like saying core curriculum isn't important?

That's exactly what I am saying. I think we would be better off if we treated Software development like a trade that had a two year up to date curriculum that actually prepared people to be hit the ground running at a company. Yes, I'm advocating the modern equivalent of "Java Schools".

Re: Middle-Class Families Increasingly Look to Community Colleges

#73

Post by ams6110 »

epistasis wrote: post #3

Some of the large introductory classes at four year institutions are not so great anyway, as many faculty would rather focus on research and classes that feed in talented undergrads for summer research. IMHO the biggest potential loss are the social connections that can develop over four years versus just two. These can be crucial for friendship and for career connections, depending on the field.

I don't know about the social connections angle so much. If you're the type of person who really gets into that, i.e, would be in a fraternity or sorority, there are advantages. But as a more introverted/tech type person I didn't maintain contact with any friends or roommates from college much at all after graduation, nor they me. I can't point to any particular social connections from college that benefited me afterwards.

Re: Middle-Class Families Increasingly Look to Community Colleges

#74

Post by scarface74 »

HarryHirsch wrote: post #43
scarface74 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does the community college need to be "good"? Mostly you take classes there that have nothing to do with your major.

You also take foundation classes for your major. Compare an introductory physics lecture from MIT or Berkeley you find online to your average community college class. At community college you find people with insufficient understanding of algebra so if something like Ohms Law comes up you have them memorize all three forms. This is a problem, you can't teach for understanding. As a student you find yourself in a situ…

How is that different than computer science? The only people I know that were successful at my unknown state college were people who were geeks and either already knew how to program or took an interest in it outside of class.

Re: Middle-Class Families Increasingly Look to Community Colleges

#75

Post by phamilton »

Retric wrote: post #71
wil421 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should you have to get credits before you leave High School? Just teach more advanced subjects in both High School and College. I agree with what you are saying but I think it’s a product of a failure somewhere else in the education system. No child left behind and other programs hinder education by applying one size fits all policies.

Students are not equally skilled. The majority of students are not really a collage level English and History and Math and Art class starting in 11th grade, though a significant number could take a subset of those. Simply making High School arbitrarily harder is kind of meaningless if most students would fail the material.

This sort of leads into competency based advancement rather than time based advancement. Rather than having a 4 year program where you rank graduates by competency (gpa), have a higher bar of competency and have people graduate at different rates.

Re: Middle-Class Families Increasingly Look to Community Colleges

#76

Post by bogomipz »

scarface74 wrote: post #72
bogomipz wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't that kind of like saying core curriculum isn't important?

That's exactly what I am saying. I think we would be better off if we treated Software development like a trade that had a two year up to date curriculum that actually prepared people to be hit the ground running at a company. Yes, I'm advocating the modern equivalent of "Java Schools".

>"That's exactly what I am saying. I think we would be better off if we treated Software development like a trade that had a two year up to date curriculum that actually prepared people to be hit the ground running at a company."

So you see no reason for schools to produce people with well-rounded educations? You don't feel its important for society to have adults who have a wide-ranging perspective on things like literature, philosophy, history, art and non-computer science?

Also the OPs comment and this entire discussion is of general secondary education and not software development.

Re: Middle-Class Families Increasingly Look to Community Colleges

#77

Post by maxerickson »

phamilton wrote: post #75
Retric wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Students are not equally skilled. The majority of students are not really a collage level English and History and Math and Art class starting in 11th grade, though a significant number could take a subset of those. Simply making High School arbitrarily harder is kind of meaningless if most students would fail the material.

This sort of leads into competency based advancement rather than time based advancement. Rather than having a 4 year program where you rank graduates by competency (gpa), have a higher bar of competency and have people graduate at different rates.

That's part of what I'm getting at when I talk about it being an available track.

You can still have everybody lined up to finish ~17 or 18, just allow more variation in what they have finished. If someone doesn't plan to go on to college, maybe they don't need to take college prep math classes and can take classes that will serve them better.

Re: Middle-Class Families Increasingly Look to Community Colleges

#78

Post by scarface74 »

bogomipz wrote: post #76
scarface74 wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's exactly what I am saying. I think we would be better off if we treated Software development like a trade that had a two year up to date curriculum that actually prepared people to be hit the ground running at a company. Yes, I'm advocating the modern equivalent of "Java Schools".

>"That's exactly what I am saying. I think we would be better off if we treated Software development like a trade that had a two year up to date curriculum that actually prepared people to be hit the ground running at a company." So you see no reason for schools to produce people with well-rounded educations? You don't feel its important for society to have adults who have a wide-ranging perspective on things like li…

Isn't that what they are doing in high school?

And it's not just about software development, most college curriculumns could be more focused into a two year degree.

Re: Middle-Class Families Increasingly Look to Community Colleges

#79

Post by Urbanxassassin »

All depends on the person for which works best. I think we should still focus more on changing the current University education system, but I get that Community College is the better alternative price and time wise. One of my siblings went that route and honestly it worked wonders for them so far. But, I also like what states like Louisiana, Tennessee, Oklahoma, and probably other states are doing by paying University tuition for students that do average in high school.

Personally, I considered the community college route and I'm glad I didn't, all 4 years of university provided relationships that I have leaned on and have paid off in more ways than I could have ever imagined. And this is coming from a kid that came from basically nothing and two parents with nothing more than high school diplomas.

Re: Middle-Class Families Increasingly Look to Community Colleges

#80

Post by enraged_camel »

golergka wrote: post #6
kchoudhu wrote: post #5

Good. There's nothing I learned in the first two years of an extremely expensive private school that wouldn't have been sorted out living at home and going to community college.

Would you be able to make the same connections in a community college?

I wouldn’t. I have a group of 15-20 friends, all of whom I met in the dorms in freshman year. I’m in my mid-30s and we are still close friends (reunions every other year). They have helped me immensely with life, work, friendships... I don’t see how I could have made those connections in community college, or during junior/senior year had I transferred (IME, it’s harder to make friends in later years of college, as most people already have established friendships by then).
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