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The dots do matter: how to scam a Gmail user

jameshfisher.com

251–260 of 518 posts

Re: The dots do matter: how to scam a Gmail user

#251
post #231

The article is wrong: The number of email addresses is NOT INFINITE. The 'user' part of an email address (before the @) has a maximum length of 64 characters. If n is the number of non-dot characters in the user part, then only (64 - n) dots can be added to the address for it to still be valid. The valid email addresses for that user are a subset of all 64 character combinations possible with dots, alphanumeric chars…

For Gmail, you can add a plus to the left side of your email address and then append an arbitrary string. For example, email@gmail.com and email+foo@gmail.com are the same address.

And, it's still finite, right? Just a large, finite number :P

Re: The dots do matter: how to scam a Gmail user

#252
post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, google.com assigned semantics to the local-part, which they are allowed, even supposed, to do.

My point is that the RFC doesn't say they "don't matter", it says they don't have to matter. For Netflix to assume they don't matter would be in violation of the RFC (it would be assigning semantics to the local-part).

Thank you. I misunderstood.

Re: The dots do matter: how to scam a Gmail user

#253
post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was under the impression that literally anything goes on the left side of the @. It’s all up to the individual mail server

IIRC, not quite literally, but pretty close. The email RFCs in general tend to be much less constrained than one might expect.

Yup. Even spaces are allowed if you put double quotes around the local part: “Kevin Spacey”@example.com. It’s really surprising, there’s very little that can be verified if you strictly follow the RFC.

Re: The dots do matter: how to scam a Gmail user

#254

Totally disagree with the conclusion. This is Netflix's issue for not validating the email account. Not sure if Uber has changed this since then, but back in the day I used to get the full ride details and receipts from someone else who mistyped their email. If you are sending private transactional emails you need to verify accounts first.

I think these are orthogonal issues. The dots do matter, but Netflix should also validate email addresses. However, I don't think it's as critical. Lack of email validation means I receive someone else's ride details (I agree, annoying), but dots-don't-matter means I might accidentally pay for that person's rides.

dots-don't-matter isn't sufficient to fix this issue - any other canonicalization issues would surfacea as the same problem. That might include casing, unicode issues, the `+irrelevantsuffix` stuff, and probably more, including perhaps any kind of aliases in the hostname.

The idea that you can tell whether two accounts are the same is questionable; netflix should not be relying on it.

Furthermore, the hack is possibly much less serious (but nonetheless conceivable) even without any canonicalization issues whatsoever. Apparently, a user can trick netflix into sending email to arbitrary email addresses. Sure, this is likely not to be an issue if the recipient doesn't have netflix in the first place - but if you try 1000 times (which spammers and phishers are wont to do) - you may well happen to hit a person that'll pay nonetheless - perhaps they forgot which email they used for netflix in the first place, or perhaps they share an email account, or perhaps the real owner is dead/on vacation/otherwise unavailable and somebody else is tending the account and thus more gullible than usual.

Netflix should never ask for money from random strangers without making 100% clear what the context of that request is.

(If indeed this article is accurate, because I wouldn't rule out the chance that the author made some oversight earlier).

Re: The dots do matter: how to scam a Gmail user

#255
post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good to know. I had accidentally created multiple accounts for myself around '05 or so and was really surprised by it. Iirc back then they also required separate accounts per-country, but I could be wrong about that.

They still do AFAICT (I had to sign up for a Japanese account relatively recently).

Amazon Japan and Amazon China are the only ones that have separate accounts from the rest of the Amazon sites.

Re: The dots do matter: how to scam a Gmail user

#256
Am I the only one who thinks this is a total non-issue? Neither Google, nor Netflix screwed up. Only the guy who wrote this ridiculous blog post.

This is very difficult to exploit and the most you could gain is a Netflix subscription. This is an incredibly complicated form of phishing which is entirely mitigated by the fact that it is difficult to execute for essentially zero return.

You have to be truly delusional to think that someone would waste their time trying to perform this attack when they could instead download a public sentryMBA profile and get hundreds of working accounts in seconds.

Re: The dots do matter: how to scam a Gmail user

#257
post #8
post #4

I really wish that I could tell google to bounce all the emails that don’t match my “dot pattern” I’m now in complete control of someone else’s commercial business hvac account because of precisely this problem. And the worse part is that I don’t know the correct email to get ahold of this person. They’ve set up library appointments, I received a receipt for a down payment on a lake house, basically most of this pers…

Just create a filter to send everything that doesn’t match your dot pattern to the trash. I have a relatively common first name / last name gmail account and it gets out of control sometimes.

Don't see a way to do that in the web UI. There's a "To" box in the first page for filter setup, but no obvious way to negate so as to specify "NOT To".

Re: The dots do matter: how to scam a Gmail user

#258
post #104

I have multiple "e-mail doppelgangers" - confused people who don't know their own email address and so accidentally use my address when they register stuff. One's in Chile. I have almost no knowledge of Spanish. The other is in California. Having experienced this: Services need to email new email accounts they become aware of ASAP. They have literally zero UI available to me to notify them that this is an invalid ema…

Same here. I have a six character gmail address which includes a common name, and I get an average of between one and two misdirected emails a day, sometimes more. Stuff from all over the world, signup emails, invoices, love letters, confidential documents, etc. Mostly the non-dot version, but sometimes a version with one dot. It's infuriating, but I couldn't possibly change my email address at this point; it's tied to hundreds of accounts :(
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