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Facebook will add “unsend” feature after secretly deleting Zuckerberg’s messages

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Re: Facebook will add “unsend” feature after secretly deleting Zuckerberg’s messages

#101

Post by matuszeg »

lucb1e wrote: post #77
matuszeg wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I usually make throwaways for the same reason. I think there is some merit to the idea of Right to be Forgotten[1] but at the same time, I feel like that would just help evil people hide their true nature. The other half of me wants to just have the NSA dump everything one day and let everyone know what everyone else has really been saying for the last 15 years. The first couple days would be tough for everyone to ac…

> help evil people hide their true nature I doubt there's anyone who decides "Imma be evil" or realizes it of themselves to such an extent. If you believed you were evil, wouldn't you want to change it? Even terrorists don't think they're evil.

I agree, they do not think they are evil, but they know others think they are. So they mask their behavior. Dog whistling is a classic example[1].

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog-whistle_politics

Re: Facebook will add “unsend” feature after secretly deleting Zuckerberg’s messages

#102

Post by matuszeg »

davesque wrote: post #87
matuszeg wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I usually make throwaways for the same reason. I think there is some merit to the idea of Right to be Forgotten[1] but at the same time, I feel like that would just help evil people hide their true nature. The other half of me wants to just have the NSA dump everything one day and let everyone know what everyone else has really been saying for the last 15 years. The first couple days would be tough for everyone to ac…

Isn't that the entire point of the Right to be Forgotten? To say that there is such a right is to say that it's incorrect to expect that you could know a person's "true nature" just by seeing what they happened to think at any given time in their lives.

I agree one event does not summarize an individual. But if you can choose what is remembered and what is not you can pick and choose the data others use to determine who you are. If someone goes on a racist tirade on Facebook, yea that does not automatically make them a racist, but its a very good data point that people who meet that person should be able to reference. I believe the sentiment of the Right to be Forgotten is so the racist who changes their mind can move on from their past. But I feel this will be abused more than used correctly. Con artists will wildly abuse the Right to be Forgotten.

Re: Facebook will add “unsend” feature after secretly deleting Zuckerberg’s messages

#104

Post by AlexandrB »

jakebasile wrote: post #52

Please excuse some meta commentary here. Is HN turning into an anti-Facebook echo chamber? I cannot believe the amount of posts about Facebook, condemning Facebook, blaming Facebook, assuming the worst motives of Facebook, and picking apart every word said by Facebook executives. In every post's comments there are the same tired "you are the product", "I deleted Facebook and if you don't you're an idiot", "dumb fucks…

I think Facebook is getting beat on because it's in the middle of a media maelstrom and under a lot of scrutiny as a result. I also think it deserves every bit of it and many of its social media peers do too (LinkedIn is basically Facebook with even more "dark patterns").

Regarding some of the specific comments you're seeing repeated - yes "you are the product" gets trotted out a lot - but it's basically correct, isn't it? You haven't offered any counter-argument here. Pointing out that Facebook's material incentives are absolutely not aligned with those of their users is always going to be relevant when discussing how Facebook handles user data.

Facebook could minimize the data they gather instead of maximizing it, they could give users fine-grained control over what data "partners" get to use/target, they could make the defaults for many options private. There's no incentive to do any of this though - so in many cases they do the opposite [1].

[1] http://mattmckeon.com/facebook-privacy/

Re: Facebook will add “unsend” feature after secretly deleting Zuckerberg’s messages

#105

Post by Casseres »

woolvalley wrote: post #68
c22 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A good middle ground would be that account deletion changes the user's historical post attributions to Anonymous .

If you still allow single post deletion, that leads to scripting where people delete each post, one by one.

Single post deletion changes attribution to Anonymous as well then.

Re: Facebook will add “unsend” feature after secretly deleting Zuckerberg’s messages

#106

Post by dragonwriter »

AlexandrB wrote: post #104
jakebasile wrote: post #52

Please excuse some meta commentary here. Is HN turning into an anti-Facebook echo chamber? I cannot believe the amount of posts about Facebook, condemning Facebook, blaming Facebook, assuming the worst motives of Facebook, and picking apart every word said by Facebook executives. In every post's comments there are the same tired "you are the product", "I deleted Facebook and if you don't you're an idiot", "dumb fucks…

I think Facebook is getting beat on because it's in the middle of a media maelstrom and under a lot of scrutiny as a result. I also think it deserves every bit of it and many of its social media peers do too (LinkedIn is basically Facebook with even more "dark patterns"). Regarding some of the specific comments you're seeing repeated - yes "you are the product" gets trotted out a lot - but it's basically correct, isn…

> I think Facebook is getting beat on because it's in the middle of a media maelstrom and under a lot of scrutiny as a result.

Facebook is getting beat on because the left and the privacy conscious are concerned, for slightly different reasons, over the scope of the corporate manipulation using personal data, and the Trumpist segment of the right wants to keep attention on FB to deflect as much public attention as possible from entities tied to Russia and/or the Trump campaign involved in the same scandal.

That doesn't quite give everyone a beef against Facebook, but it does mean they are getting adverse attention from all sides.

Re: Facebook will add “unsend” feature after secretly deleting Zuckerberg’s messages

#107

Post by icebraining »

sverige wrote: post #84
scarmig wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why wouldn't you trust him?

Exactly. Also, they're a private company. They can do whatever they like with their data per the ToS. Why is this even a concern?

I have to agree; I mean, it's a concern, but not a new concern. He's the CEO of Facebook, of course he can potentially read anything stored on their servers. Nothing has changed on that regard. And not just on Facebook - any company. Why would one ever assume otherwise?

Here's cperciva's insightful post on the issue: http://www.daemonology.net/blog/2012-01-19-playing-chicken-w...

Re: Facebook will add “unsend” feature after secretly deleting Zuckerberg’s messages

#108

Post by codedokode »

tobtoh wrote: post #88
propman wrote: post #24

This is awesome! 17 year old me shit talking with friends shouldn't be used against me if I were to obtain a position of power and be blackmailed by that. Also, any message without context could be construed as sexist, racist, privalidged, ablist or whatever. Really positive development from this entire mess of a scandal.

Also means people can be harassed and the offender can delete the message after they know the person has seen the message (via the read receipt).

Deleting the message will look like admitting a thing done wrong.

Re: Facebook will add “unsend” feature after secretly deleting Zuckerberg’s messages

#109

Post by jsjohnst »

sverige wrote: post #84
scarmig wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why wouldn't you trust him?

Exactly. Also, they're a private company. They can do whatever they like with their data per the ToS. Why is this even a concern?

> Also, they're a private company

Customarily, companies who have shares in trade on a stock exchange are considered a “public” company. It’s why it’s called “going public”, which Facebook did in 2012.

Re: Facebook will add “unsend” feature after secretly deleting Zuckerberg’s messages

#110

Post by mcast »

lucb1e wrote: post #74
matte_black wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What’s more troubling is that they could keep copies of things you were about to post but then decided not to. Not a good idea if halfway through writing an entire manifesto or some neo nazi rant you decide to not post it. I call these “shadow posts”.

You can see if they send anything via ajax... this would be easy to detect.

It would be trivial to store data in the browser's local storage and hijack a "real" HTTP POST with this data. The front-end logic would need to be obfuscated far enough to deter anyone from trying to step through the Javascript to find it.

But no, HN doesn't do this, only companies like Facebook or Twitter would stand to gain from that information (e.g. a shooter almost tweets his plan to attack but doesn't post it).

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