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Another Tesla on autopilot steers towards a barrier

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Re: Another Tesla on autopilot steers towards a barrier

#351

Post by duiker101 »

l8again wrote: post #340

An honest question. Are any of these autonomous driving systems open source or peer reviewed in any way? If not, isn't it really weird that we are talking about regulations even though the underlying technology is not even peer reviewed? How do we know (mathematical proofs, etc.) that a self-driving car manufacturer has done a good enough job if all of that is proprietary?

In one of the earlier discussions about this(like, last year) I remember an engeneer's comment about how one of the major manufacturer's (Toyota maybe?) code base for the monitoring system of the car was something to behold. On the lines of hundreds of global variables and basically unexisting standards. Now, I don't say that their or Tesla's autopilot are the same, but it wouldn't really surprise me either.

Re: Another Tesla on autopilot steers towards a barrier

#352

Post by hyperbovine »

wcunning wrote: post #236
hyperbovine wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ahem. That is purely semantics -- ABS makes the car perform more like what you are conditioned to expect (under normal driving conditions). That's the whole success of ABS; it saves lives precisely because it conveys the illusion of you still being 100% under direct control when in fact you would be careening out of control otherwise.

One of the things I've heard mentioned by professional driving instructors, without a good citation, is that many more accidents could be avoided if people trusted ABS more. Specifically, when you're braking hard/panic braking and the ABS kicks it, the shock of the rapid firing against your foot causes you to back off pressure on the brake pedal. I was specifically instructed to stand on it anyway to see what the car…

Yes, my driving instructor (aka my father, employing the paternal prerogative of never citing anything ever) used to say the same thing.

Re: Another Tesla on autopilot steers towards a barrier

#353

Post by [deleted] »

lisper wrote: post #122

Here is my armchair diagnosis: right before the car veers towards the barrier it drives through a stretch of road where the only visible lane marker is on the left. Then the right lane marker comes into view at about the point where the lane starts to widen out for the lane split. The lines that will become the right and left lane markers of the split left and right lanes respectively are right next to the van in fro…

[deleted]

Re: Another Tesla on autopilot steers towards a barrier

#354

Post by mannykannot »

swiley wrote: post #57
tjwds wrote: post #2

This comment from OP (beastpilot) is pretty frightening: > Yep, works for 6 months with zero issues. Then one Friday night you get an update. Everything works that weekend, and on your way to work on Monday. Then, 18 minutes into your commute home, it drives straight at a barrier at 60 MPH. > It's important to remember that it's not like you got the update 5 minutes before this happened. Even worse, you may not know…

And this is why if I ever get a self driving car I want: 1) root 2) control over updates 3) everything to be completely open

Do these things really matter unless you are going to verify the software yourself? (and if you are, kudos to you!)

While, in principle, users could organize their own communal verification programs for open software, that does not happen in practice, even when the software is widely used and needs to be safe (or at least secure - OpenSSL...)

Re: Another Tesla on autopilot steers towards a barrier

#355

Post by musage »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #52
blurbleblurble wrote: post #3

People aren't going to tolerate this kind of stuff. These aren't cosmetic or aesthetic flaws. This is an area that deserves transparency. I'm out on the road too, and I don't get to make "consumer choices" for other people I share the road with. People are putting their market power into companies that lack the basic integrity to build these technologies with safety and transparency as the first priority, who evident…

Nobody's forcing autopilot on anyone. I think instead, tesla will / should opt to disable autopilot earlier in non-ideal conditions like this - that way they won't be held liable either. ATM it really feels like they're being put on trial here.

> ATM it really feels like they're being put on trial here.

Yeah, god forbid anything ever changes. Let's discuss serious issues, but only briefly, to normalize them by exposure.

Re: Another Tesla on autopilot steers towards a barrier

#356

Post by seaurchin »

rtx wrote: post #302
ansible wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with all you've said. One of my concerns with self-driving systems is that they don't have a good model of the world they are operating in. Yes, sure, they build up 3-D models using multiple sensor types, and react to that accordingly, oftentimes with faster reflexes than a human. However, consider this situation with pedestrians A and B, while driving down a street, approaching an intersection. Pedestrian A,…

Another similar situation where autopilot may fail. It sees a ball rolling across the street. Will it slow down, because a child maybe chasing the ball.

I used to contemplate similar situations. For example, a stationary person on a bike at the top of a steep driveway that's perpendicular to the vehicle's driving direction. But after seeing the video of the Arizona incident I stopped. It's too soon to consider these corner cases when some systems on the public road can't even slow down for a person in front of the fucking vehicle.

Re: Another Tesla on autopilot steers towards a barrier

#359

Post by binaryjay »

lisper wrote: post #122

Here is my armchair diagnosis: right before the car veers towards the barrier it drives through a stretch of road where the only visible lane marker is on the left. Then the right lane marker comes into view at about the point where the lane starts to widen out for the lane split. The lines that will become the right and left lane markers of the split left and right lanes respectively are right next to the van in fro…

>Here is my armchair diagnosis:

Odd how your "armchair diagnosis" matches perfectly with the top ranked comment in the reddit thread that was posted 1 day ago.

courtlandreOwner 815 points 1 day ago

It sees the white line on the left, the white line on the right and thinks its a big lane. Its trying to center the car in the lane.

Re: Another Tesla on autopilot steers towards a barrier

#360

Post by buvanshak »

robotnixon wrote: post #28
taneq wrote: post #10

What does this say about the quality of the automatic emergency braking, if it can't detect a substantial metal object directly in front of the car?

Autopilot has trouble with stationary objects. https://www.wired.com/story/tesla-autopilot-why-crash-radar/

So it can't drive for shit. Right? "Autopilot" my ass!
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