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Cloudflare's new DNS attracting 'gigabits per second' of rubbish

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141–150 of 206 posts

Re: Cloudflare's new DNS attracting 'gigabits per second' of rubbish

#141

From a marketing point of view, I think it was a brilliant move from Cloudflare to get the 1.1.1.1 address. Clearly better than 8.8.8.8! But from a user perspective, why couldn't they have just let that address be... So many things are going to break just because Cloudflare wants a pretty IP. Sure, the things that break were using a hack, but in my opinion that doesn't automatically make it okay to break it. Now I'm…

What breaks with 1.1.1.1? Some people can't use it because of misconfiguration but it shouldn't break any services?

Re: Cloudflare's new DNS attracting 'gigabits per second' of rubbish

#143
post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In cases without competition. I live in an area with three gigabit-capable ISPs and the difference in support quality is unbelievable, even for the Comcast and Verizon customers – just calling from a competitive neighborhood gets your call processed differently.

Which city?

Sounds like Seattle

Re: Cloudflare's new DNS attracting 'gigabits per second' of rubbish

#144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A $12/hour call center customer retention worker in rural TN has no idea what you're complaining about, their job is simply to meet some retention metrics on a weekly basis. Even if you can actually reach the people who run the ASN of your ISPs, if it something big like Cox, charter, Shaw, etc, they'll be politically unable to confirm or deny anything, and won't want to talk to you. You might get a straight answer if…

Such are the joys of modern "customer support" -- human beings don't scale, because they need to sleep and can only talk to one other human at a time. So you hire the cheapest ones you can find, and instruct them to be minimally helpful. Even better, make them all "managers," so "can I please speak to your manager" will just take you to another minimum-wage employee. If you want actual customer support these days, yo…

A smarter, and perhaps even more profitable way to approach this problem is "OK, we want almost everything that happens to customers to be a self-serve situation" and then make your (fewer) call centre employees highly trained troubleshooters who can figure out why _this_ customer wasn't able to self-serve and get that sorted for them. The result is a better customer experience (usually everything just works, when you need to talk to a human the human is an _expert_ who helps fix your problem, not a drone working from a fixed script) and it can be much cheaper if done right.

Definitely if you think of your product/ service as "premium" this is the correct model to have.

Re: Cloudflare's new DNS attracting 'gigabits per second' of rubbish

#145
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I tested it out and switched back, it made performance to Twitch in particular quite bad for me. I don't get that issue with Google DNS though.

Google's take good care of it... and they explain precisely what they do on the topic... https://developers.google.com/speed/public-dns/docs/ecs https://developers.google.com/speed/public-dns/faq#locations (when EDNS0/ECS isn't supported) The tin foil hat brigade might suggest that this is deliberate to ensure that only what's served by cloudflare gets to be fast...

Why is healthy speculation now considered "tin foil hat brigade"?

Conspiracy theory isn't a dirty word.

Speculation keeps people informed and alive.

Re: Cloudflare's new DNS attracting 'gigabits per second' of rubbish

#146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

PacketCable (VoIP over Cable internet) is even worse When it came out. If you wanted to "borrow" someone's phone number. All you had to do was clone the MAC address of the VoIP (EMTA) port If someone called the number. Both you and the victims phones would ring

Same with CDMA. Just had to copy the phone number and ESN. Boom whichever phone was closest to the tower would ring, if both phones wear pinging with near freq then both could receive the same SMS and call, but only one could be on a call at a time. No actual interception. Things got a bit different with MDN and MIN were different to ESN pair. Calls still came but you couldn't auth or call out for data services. It's…

For some reason I think CDMA could suffer from crosstalk in certain circumstances, but it was something relatively obscure, like one device had to be above another (like an apartment building), but otherwise in the same/similar coordinates, and then certain code assignments would allow crosstalk to happen. It was weird, because it could be one direction only.

Unfortunately I don't really remember the details, since I worked on the core data network at the time.

Re: Cloudflare's new DNS attracting 'gigabits per second' of rubbish

#147

Using 1.1.1.0/24 for a DNS service was a bad idea. Now all this garbage traffic is being routed. (Before, it would just be dropped closer to the edge.)

That was part of the reason they used it. They partnered with the company that owned it and wanted to study the junk but couldn't handle the traffic. Cloudflare got 1.1.1.1 for DNS use and helped handle the junk traffic so they could study it.

Re: Cloudflare's new DNS attracting 'gigabits per second' of rubbish

#148
post #87

From a marketing point of view, I think it was a brilliant move from Cloudflare to get the 1.1.1.1 address. Clearly better than 8.8.8.8! But from a user perspective, why couldn't they have just let that address be... So many things are going to break just because Cloudflare wants a pretty IP. Sure, the things that break were using a hack, but in my opinion that doesn't automatically make it okay to break it. Now I'm…

example.com (and other example.*) is reserved for documentation purposes, i.e. you can't buy it.

Just like 1.1.1.1 used to be null routed?

Re: Cloudflare's new DNS attracting 'gigabits per second' of rubbish

#149
post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In cases without competition. I live in an area with three gigabit-capable ISPs and the difference in support quality is unbelievable, even for the Comcast and Verizon customers – just calling from a competitive neighborhood gets your call processed differently.

Which city?

Washington DC - my neighborhood has Comcast, RCN, and Verizon. Our neighbors report better service on all three — and when you go a couple blocks south where the FIOS rollout stopped, regression to normal sets in for Comcast.

We also have municipal fiber but they’ve chosen not to make that available for residential service which is really disappointing but … politics.

Re: Cloudflare's new DNS attracting 'gigabits per second' of rubbish

#150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And people wonder why https everywhere is such a necessity now. It should not be necessary to treat your last mile ISP as a hostile entity , but sadly, it often is.

Your last mile ISP is almost certainly a hostile entity, but HTTPS alone isn't going to save you [0]. [0]: www.cs.umd.edu/class/fall2017/cmsc818O/papers/tangled-mass.pdf

That paper is from 2014 and some of the circumstances described have since changed.

They've also done some things that I assume fell out of operating ICSI's Notary but don't make any real sense for this paper.

For example: For a real user what we care about is this cert the end user was presented for a site: Would that be trusted in (Internet Explorer on XP, Safari on iOS, a Python script on a Debian machine, etcetera) and would it be trusted in this smartphone.

And what they've looked at is, were the same Trust Stores baked into an Android phone as the above systems? But that's subtly different in a way that fogs the issue here. Example:

Suppose phone X trusts ISRG Root X1, XP trusts DST Root CA X 3, and a Debian system trusts Lets Encrypt Authority X3. Those are, to the naked eye, and this study, three completely different things. But in _practice_ for an end user it'd turn out any of the three work for trusting a vast number of certificates used on the web. Trusting one or another _does_ matter, but this paper isn't about why that is, and doesn't really explain what's going on here, it treats that sort of scenario as anomalous and potentially alarming without explaining.

The paper did remind me that ICSI's Notary won't work with TLS 1.3, which I have sort of known but not ever mentally addressed. The ICSI Notary works by peeking inside TLS sessions. In versions up to TLS 1.2, the server's Certificate is delivered unencrypted, just before both peers encryption switches on and their communications are unintelligible. This is used by the Notary and by lots of crappy middleboxes, but in TLS 1.3 the encryption has switched on earlier, before the certificate is sent, so the Notary can't see certificates any more.

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