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Another Tesla on autopilot steers towards a barrier

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Re: Another Tesla on autopilot steers towards a barrier

#11

Post by darkerside »

I wonder if Tesla has a way to visualize how disruptive a change to Autopilot. They've supposedly got all this driving data lying around. Would they be able to apply the updated algorithms to that data and quantify how many decisions would be affected, and by how much? i.e. 30% of past decisions would have been changed with the new algorithm, 5% changed by an angle of over 2 degrees.

On a similar note, shouldn't customers be getting release notes for these updates? I let my customers know when we're updating a web page. Tesla should surely be informing them when cars are going to start lane centering.

Re: Another Tesla on autopilot steers towards a barrier

#12

Post by ams6110 »

tjwds wrote: post #2

This comment from OP (beastpilot) is pretty frightening: > Yep, works for 6 months with zero issues. Then one Friday night you get an update. Everything works that weekend, and on your way to work on Monday. Then, 18 minutes into your commute home, it drives straight at a barrier at 60 MPH. > It's important to remember that it's not like you got the update 5 minutes before this happened. Even worse, you may not know…

> Very glad the driver had 100% of their attention on the road at that moment.

Yes, and 100% is critical. That required pretty quick and smooth reactions. The car started to follow the right-hand lane, then suddenly re-centered on the barrier. The driver had about a second to see that and correct. That's just the sort of situation where even a slightly inattentive driver might panic and overcorrect, which could cause a spinout if the roads were wet or icy or cause a crash with parallel traffic.

Re: Another Tesla on autopilot steers towards a barrier

#13

Post by fairpx »

Autopilot tech in general should be open and shared among ccompanies and universities. The more brains we can put on this the better imho. If these things happen too often, Im afraid regulators will start making laws that prevent the use of this tech, which I believe has the potential to really make life better for all... one day.

Re: Another Tesla on autopilot steers towards a barrier

#14

Post by seren »

GoToRO wrote: post #8
ProblemFactory wrote: post #4

If Tesla autopilot relies on good quality road markings, then it's not yet usable in 80% of the world.

It's not usable anywhere. What if I draw a fake line on the road? will it follow it? what if you have wet paint and another vehicle smudges it diagonally to the lane?

I wonder how it works when there is some road work, and there are multiple overlapping lines at once.

Re: Another Tesla on autopilot steers towards a barrier

#15

Post by edf13 »

ams6110 wrote: post #12
tjwds wrote: post #2

This comment from OP (beastpilot) is pretty frightening: > Yep, works for 6 months with zero issues. Then one Friday night you get an update. Everything works that weekend, and on your way to work on Monday. Then, 18 minutes into your commute home, it drives straight at a barrier at 60 MPH. > It's important to remember that it's not like you got the update 5 minutes before this happened. Even worse, you may not know…

> Very glad the driver had 100% of their attention on the road at that moment. Yes, and 100% is critical. That required pretty quick and smooth reactions. The car started to follow the right-hand lane, then suddenly re-centered on the barrier. The driver had about a second to see that and correct. That's just the sort of situation where even a slightly inattentive driver might panic and overcorrect, which could cause…

So your basically paying (A lot) of cash to beta test their software for them... at your own (Very personal) risk!

Re: Another Tesla on autopilot steers towards a barrier

#16

Post by makomk »

tjwds wrote: post #2

This comment from OP (beastpilot) is pretty frightening: > Yep, works for 6 months with zero issues. Then one Friday night you get an update. Everything works that weekend, and on your way to work on Monday. Then, 18 minutes into your commute home, it drives straight at a barrier at 60 MPH. > It's important to remember that it's not like you got the update 5 minutes before this happened. Even worse, you may not know…

Elsewhere from the comments: "Yes the lane width detection and centering was introduced in 10.4. Our X does this now as well and while it's a welcome intoroduction in most cases every one in a while in this instance or when HOV lanes split it is unwelcome." So basically, if I'm understanding this right they introduced a new feature that positions your car a little more consistently in the lane at the small cost of sometimes steering you at full speed head-on into a barrier.

Remember Tesla's first press release on the crash and how it mentioned "Tesla owners have driven this same stretch of highway with Autopilot engaged roughly 85,000 times"? I imagine the number that have driven it successfully in that lane since that update was rolled out sometime in mid-March is rather smaller...

Re: Another Tesla on autopilot steers towards a barrier

#17

Post by donkeyd »

darkerside wrote: post #11

I wonder if Tesla has a way to visualize how disruptive a change to Autopilot. They've supposedly got all this driving data lying around. Would they be able to apply the updated algorithms to that data and quantify how many decisions would be affected, and by how much? i.e. 30% of past decisions would have been changed with the new algorithm, 5% changed by an angle of over 2 degrees. On a similar note, shouldn't cust…

How do you define a 'decision' in something like autopilot though? Also, if I remember correctly, only a couple of images per second are sent to Tesla. If there's a fraction of a second where it may decide to run into something, it may not actually appear in test results.

Re: Another Tesla on autopilot steers towards a barrier

#18

Post by bjl »

edf13 wrote: post #15
ams6110 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Very glad the driver had 100% of their attention on the road at that moment. Yes, and 100% is critical. That required pretty quick and smooth reactions. The car started to follow the right-hand lane, then suddenly re-centered on the barrier. The driver had about a second to see that and correct. That's just the sort of situation where even a slightly inattentive driver might panic and overcorrect, which could cause…

So your basically paying (A lot) of cash to beta test their software for them... at your own (Very personal) risk!

Not to mention the fact that, if they're software screws up and kills you, they'll rush to to Twitter in an attempt to smear you using personal data and deceptive statements.

Re: Another Tesla on autopilot steers towards a barrier

#19

Post by walrus01 »

darkerside wrote: post #11

I wonder if Tesla has a way to visualize how disruptive a change to Autopilot. They've supposedly got all this driving data lying around. Would they be able to apply the updated algorithms to that data and quantify how many decisions would be affected, and by how much? i.e. 30% of past decisions would have been changed with the new algorithm, 5% changed by an angle of over 2 degrees. On a similar note, shouldn't cust…

I really don't think they could do this effectively unless each car also uploads 20GB per day of 60fps high quality video, which would collapse the cellular networks they use.

Re: Another Tesla on autopilot steers towards a barrier

#20

Post by jdmichal »

taneq wrote: post #10

What does this say about the quality of the automatic emergency braking, if it can't detect a substantial metal object directly in front of the car?

Depends on how close it is and what it is. Have to weigh the energy of the impact against the pitch introduced by braking. You need the bumper to take the hit, so that it and the crumple zones can do their job.

However, for a wall or highway barrier, it's probably almost always worthwhile to shed as much energy as possible. You're going to pitch yourself under the barrier where the bumper won't take the hit, like you might when colliding with another vehicle.

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