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MIT's student newspaper criticizes MIT's convenience-based ethics

thetech.com

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Re: MIT's student newspaper criticizes MIT's convenience-based ethics

#31

Post by jadedhacker »

As a former MIT person, I applaud the editorial board here. I had long assumed that despite MIT housing a dissident or two here and there, their primary social mission is to provide technical advice to the people that run the country and elite staff for them. MIT students and staff spend far too much time narrowly focused on (beautiful) math and engineering without properly reflecting on how their hard earned abilities will be used.

MBS's crimes in his country and in Yemen (and US complicity) should be sharply criticized by people who think they represent the front of progress for human civilization.

Re: MIT's student newspaper criticizes MIT's convenience-based ethics

#32

Post by internetman55 »

jadedhacker wrote: post #31

As a former MIT person, I applaud the editorial board here. I had long assumed that despite MIT housing a dissident or two here and there, their primary social mission is to provide technical advice to the people that run the country and elite staff for them. MIT students and staff spend far too much time narrowly focused on (beautiful) math and engineering without properly reflecting on how their hard earned abiliti…

They'll be used to make me money beeeeitcg

Re: MIT's student newspaper criticizes MIT's convenience-based ethics

#33

Post by hueving »

saagarjha wrote: post #28
prepend wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like most quotes from comedians that sound smart, he’s totally wrong. Unless you consider all existence is suffering or something or make the definition of suffering so broad as to make the quote pointless. Just a few examples of great things accomplished without great human suffering or slavery- space race, Internet, Inca Trail, Bilbao Museum.

> space race This was literally the result of the Cold War. > Internet Partially the same as above, also, there's no denying that they're isn't any suffering because of the Internet. > Inca Trail, Biblao Museum These mostly came about because of mechanization or better technology…

The quote in question is "slavery built everything we love".

Explain how slavery built the Internet or triggered the space race.

Re: MIT's student newspaper criticizes MIT's convenience-based ethics

#34

Post by jadedhacker »

jzl wrote: post #20

You don't even have to look as far as Saudi Arabia to raise similar questions. The Koch brothers are MIT graduates and huge donors. For a similar discussion of the ethics of MIT's acceptance of their money, see: https://www.quora.com/How-could-MIT-have-received-a-grant-fo...

I remember being shocked at walking down Kendall and seeing the cancer research building named the "Koch Institute". I'm glad the Kochs are doing things with their money other than attempting to overthrow democratic government and burn the world but my feeling is that MIT shouldn't help immunize them to criticism by burnishing their reputation.

Re: MIT's student newspaper criticizes MIT's convenience-based ethics

#35

Post by aarongough »

DamnYuppie wrote: post #16
valuearb wrote: post #6

They should have stuck to attacking MBS, and brought up the fact that the 9/11 hijackers had direct support from Saudi diplomatic personnel. Attacking Apple for providing well above market pay for jobs that rescue chinese laborers from brutal and dangerous rural farm jobs just makes the writer sound entitled.

Can you please provide more context from the "brutal and dangerous rural farm jobs"? I am aware agriculture production in China is very different then here but even at its most labor intensive times it is not something that I would have considered to be "dangerous".

Farming in general is a dangerous occupation, even in the USA where machinery tends to be reasonably modern and well guarded:

https://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/cfoi.pdf

I wasn't able to find a source but my understanding is that being a farmer is many times more dangerous on a percentage basis than being a police officer, and that's only counting fatal accidents. I would bet good money that the rate of disfiguring/crippling injury is way higher.

Re: MIT's student newspaper criticizes MIT's convenience-based ethics

#36

Post by saagarjha »

hueving wrote: post #33
saagarjha wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> space race This was literally the result of the Cold War. > Internet Partially the same as above, also, there's no denying that they're isn't any suffering because of the Internet. > Inca Trail, Biblao Museum These mostly came about because of mechanization or better technology…

The quote in question is "slavery built everything we love". Explain how slavery built the Internet or triggered the space race.

No, the quote is "great things accomplished without great human suffering or slavery".

Re: MIT's student newspaper criticizes MIT's convenience-based ethics

#37

Post by jadedhacker »

temporama wrote: post #7

Mbs is not trying to make himself look like a positive transformative figure, he actually is one. The war in Yemen is equally the fault of Saudi Arabia and Iran but I don't hear anyone calling for sanctions on Iran. I am astounded that such ignorance could come from one of the worlds pillars of higher education. Consolidation of power such as that recently performed by mbs is routine and it was done in a very humane…

I don't know much about the Yemen civil war, but I've heard that Iranian influence is overblown. In any case, even if Iran is behind the other side, what Saudi and the US are doing is unconscionable.

Here's an example of this other take: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2016/05/1...

Re: MIT's student newspaper criticizes MIT's convenience-based ethics

#38

Post by lopmotr »

komali2 wrote: post #4

A lot of righteous, eloquent fury here. I had nearly forgotten about the foxconn suicides, and now that I think about it I don't remember anything really happening except nets being put up. Louis CK (RIP our opinion of him, but still) put it pretty well once, something along the lines of "slavery built everything we love. We just throw human death and suffering at a thing until it's done. There's no end to what you c…

Apart from actual slavery with chains and guns, often the people suffering are suffering less doing the productive work than they would be otherwise because they do it by choice. So you could equally say "reducing human suffering has brought us all the things we love". Even when people die, they've taken a risk doing the dangerous job instead of whatever else which was worse. Anyone who drives to work is doing that - you could stay home unemployed or risk death in a car crash to make money.

Re: MIT's student newspaper criticizes MIT's convenience-based ethics

#39

Post by tzs »

> It is a well-documented fact that Apple products are built through the exploitation of laborers in foreign factories, who must work deplorable hours for pitiable wages.

It's also pretty well documented that Apple does at least as much as, and usually for more than, any other major consumer electronics company to make its suppliers improve working conditions and wages.

I'm curious how Apple compares to whoever made the computer the author used to type that article, or whoever made the author's mobile phone.

Re: MIT's student newspaper criticizes MIT's convenience-based ethics

#40

Post by tclancy »

evanpw wrote: post #9
komali2 wrote: post #4

A lot of righteous, eloquent fury here. I had nearly forgotten about the foxconn suicides, and now that I think about it I don't remember anything really happening except nets being put up. Louis CK (RIP our opinion of him, but still) put it pretty well once, something along the lines of "slavery built everything we love. We just throw human death and suffering at a thing until it's done. There's no end to what you c…

Apparently ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foxconn_suicides ), the suicide rate at Foxconn during that period was lower than the overall Chinese or US suicide rate.

Congrats on the greatest ACKCHYUALLY of all time.
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