I want to remind those Google employees that they are able to work at Google and enjoy very high living standard and obviously freedom of speech just because they are protected by the US army.
Google Workers Urge C.E.O. To Pull Out of Pentagon A.I. Project
921–930 of 1001 posts
Re: Google Workers Urge C.E.O. To Pull Out of Pentagon A.I. Project
#922Earlier quoted context omitted.
It still is. It is not necessary for world peace to help the Pentagon to build better killing machines.
Pentagon and their killing machines is the #1 reason why there’s now peace here in Balkans, for 18 years and counting. I don’t think people of ex-Yugoslavia would stop killing each other without being forced to.
'build better killing machines'. They are able to kill people well enough already.
Re: Google Workers Urge C.E.O. To Pull Out of Pentagon A.I. Project
#923Earlier quoted context omitted.
Thank god, some sense! It was driving me crazy with how many irrational positions that people in this thread are holding without considering their orientation to the product (AI) and their relationship to the employer. Something I would add is that a lot of people don't understand how fundamental military R&D is to the collective progression of knowledge and technology. Take almost any common technology that we use t…
There is no logical connective in your implied argument. Just because A is trying to buy from B does not mean that B should sell things to A, even if A's spending would increase the quality of B's product.
Since we live in a market driven economy, the government (A) will always find a way to buy what they want. So if Google (B) doesn't supply the demand, the customer will just go somewhere else. So it is completely illogical for Goolge to move away. They are an extremely powerful business and are subject to the rules of business.
Re: Google Workers Urge C.E.O. To Pull Out of Pentagon A.I. Project
#924Earlier quoted context omitted.
I have to disagree with you, all his arguments held back then, there was just less data. He also concedes that the statistical modeling relies on violence afflicting a proportion of the population, rather than absolute numbers - all well and good but an important distinction. Also your point is entirely fallacious anyway in the context of this thread. His book highlights a trend which cannot be disentangled from the…
I don't understand what you mean by "all his arguments held back then" when a significant portion of the book explicitly shows and discusses data regarding the number of wars fought during 1800 and before, compared to 1900 and early 2000. And the fact that another significant portion of the book deals with data about how much more likely a person is to die from violence in general during that period compared to the m…
All the trends are longer term, the theory about lessening violence first emerged in the 1700s[1]. WW2 doesn't change Pinker's conclusions, by his own admission. So, it is reasonable to conclude this book could have been written in 1930, and would be no less correct than it is now.
Re: Google Workers Urge C.E.O. To Pull Out of Pentagon A.I. Project
#925Earlier quoted context omitted.
Almost any technology can be weaponized. It's not about the particular technology you work on, but who it's being built for and the intended application.
please help me understand how a substance that turns sand into soil, developed to green the deserts, can be used as a weapon. To me this argument that "anything can be used in evil ways" is a poor excuse used to distract from the issue.
If that technology is controlled by a government, it could be denied to whomever they decide is "undesireable"...
Re: Google Workers Urge C.E.O. To Pull Out of Pentagon A.I. Project
#926Earlier quoted context omitted.
As a roboticist at the beginning of my career working on drones, I decided then and there that I would never make "bombs", a metaphor I used to mean anything that could be weaponized. I realized a lot of the work I was doing was funded by DARPA, and I was very cognizant about my research being used in this way. And like Dr. Kearns suggests, it's not entirely black and white. Would my path planning algorithm be used t…
If all the engineers who have a sense of ethic refuse to work for military projects, it implies that military projects will be performed by less ethical than average people. It is frightening. IMHO, avoiding military projects because of ethic is counterproductive.
"Hey, somebody's gotta help kill all these people, might as well be me--wouldn't want it to be a bad guy!"
Re: Google Workers Urge C.E.O. To Pull Out of Pentagon A.I. Project
#927From the movie "Flash of Genius" about Robert Kearns, the inventor of the intermittent windshield wiper: "I can't think of a job or a career where the understanding of ethics is more important than engineering," Dr. Kearns continues. "Who designed the artificial aortic heart valve? An engineer did that. Who designed the gas chambers at Auschwitz? An engineer did that, too. One man was responsible for helping save ten…
As a roboticist at the beginning of my career working on drones, I decided then and there that I would never make "bombs", a metaphor I used to mean anything that could be weaponized. I realized a lot of the work I was doing was funded by DARPA, and I was very cognizant about my research being used in this way. And like Dr. Kearns suggests, it's not entirely black and white. Would my path planning algorithm be used t…
Perhaps we need a license that excludes use of a technology for certain purposes (?)
Re: Google Workers Urge C.E.O. To Pull Out of Pentagon A.I. Project
#928I completely support the employees but it is criminal that this NYT article does not mention the extensive roots of Silicon Valley in Pentagon funding. SV as a whole is substantially a creation of military spending. Just recently in the AI space: - Siri was spun out of a Pentagon project -- look up SRI International and CALO. Its purpose: a "soldier’s servant".[1] - Autonomous driving is a direct evolution of Pentago…
I mean, if you want to go back far enough, many major results in optimization theory and operations research started in one form or another as a project to aid with military logistics. Now those are fundamental tools inside and outside SV.
Re: Google Workers Urge C.E.O. To Pull Out of Pentagon A.I. Project
#929Earlier quoted context omitted.
I kind of agree with you. This is dystopian at this point. And I don't see how permitting this sort of thing wouldn't have massive consequences down the road, but then again I'm the guy who thinks intense negotiation at a table with a mediator, and/or deciding a dispute with some sort of sporting event, is a superior solution to simply butchering people with explosives en masse.
When I was little I asked my dad why people couldn't settle things with a snowball fight or something instead of killing each other in wars, he said because there's always somebody out there that will put a rock in the snowball. That's always stuck with me
They called those "loaded" snowballs
Re: Google Workers Urge C.E.O. To Pull Out of Pentagon A.I. Project
#930Earlier quoted context omitted.
If all the engineers who have a sense of ethic refuse to work for military projects, it implies that military projects will be performed by less ethical than average people. It is frightening. IMHO, avoiding military projects because of ethic is counterproductive.
You can talk yourself into working on anything at all with this rationalization.
Yes, even if you are completely against something. For example, if you are against GMO and work on this subject, you may give valuable insights (outside of NDA) to other GMO opponents to help their fight to stop GMO. Of course, you risk your job.