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Zynga CEO: "Just copy what they do and do it until you get their numbers."

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Re: Zynga CEO: "Just copy what they do and do it until you get their numbers."

#31

Post by notahacker »

lee wrote: post #9

To me this sounds like Zynga just took an idea that was already out there, improved upon it, and executed the marketing/business side of things better than their competitors. The blatant art rip-off is evil, but the methodology of "taking something proven, and making it better" is not. Apple does this all the time, and I don't fault them for it. For the HN crowd who "can't find an idea for a startup", maybe this is a…

Ironically, Farm Town was once described as "myFarm married with Zynga's YoVille"

But did Zynga initially improve upon Farm Town or simply attract more users through a multimillion pound ad budget? For the consumer market "copy what the cool kids are doing and market the hell out of it" is arguably an even more successful strategy than "take something proven and make it better"

Re: Zynga CEO: "Just copy what they do and do it until you get their numbers."

#32

Post by code_duck »

Sure, this is obviously the heart of Microsoft's successful tactics. Facebook, too, considering their newest ideas have been to copy twitter and foursquare. Actually, an embarrassing number of companies think like that. Unfortunately, the marketplace rewards them - consumers are indifferent to what should be a moral outrage AND to their own best interest, which is to reward originality in the hope that it produces more innovation. Instead, they reward copying and sleaze, and the innovators are extinguished - resulting in mediocrity.

Re: Zynga CEO: "Just copy what they do and do it until you get their numbers."

#33

Post by teej »

danilocampos wrote: post #28
eavc wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The high-profile "social" games are just really, super casual games that can be attached to something like Facebook. The fact that they're not fun is part of why they are successful. You're just kind of trivially there, so you don't feel dorky and you don't feel like you're wasting too much time, only a moment. All online multi-player video games are "social" games, but most of them aren't hyper-casual and can't be b…

Yes, and that's an important observation. I'm not willing to accept that it's impossible to create a legitimately enjoyable game experience in the confines of the short attention span Facebook model, though. Scrabble, for example, lends itself perfectly to asynchronous, light, casual play (cf Scrabulous, Words with Friends). But it's legitimately fun at the same time. You're rewarded for imaginative approaches to sol…

Please remember that what you find enjoyable could possibly be different than what 40-year-old moms in flyover country find enjoyable. Also realize the latter group is what made Oprah, the Wii, and Zynga billion dollar businesses.

Re: Zynga CEO: "Just copy what they do and do it until you get their numbers."

#34

Post by danilocampos »

teej wrote: post #33
danilocampos wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, and that's an important observation. I'm not willing to accept that it's impossible to create a legitimately enjoyable game experience in the confines of the short attention span Facebook model, though. Scrabble, for example, lends itself perfectly to asynchronous, light, casual play (cf Scrabulous, Words with Friends). But it's legitimately fun at the same time. You're rewarded for imaginative approaches to sol…

Please remember that what you find enjoyable could possibly be different than what 40-year-old moms in flyover country find enjoyable. Also realize the latter group is what made Oprah, the Wii, and Zynga billion dollar businesses.

Anyone who takes enjoyment from exploiting their friends in the furtherance of a glorified spreadsheet needs a hug, a trip to the ice cream parlor, and a meatspace game of Uno.

There may be a baseline pseudo-fun available in the current crop of social games. Most social games, though, are more interested in bare metal compulsion than truly meritorious, universally recognizable fun.

You're really willing to sit there and tell me that you're comfortable with social game evolution stopping right now? This stuff really is sufficiently fun for you?

There's pandering to flyover country and then there's making something good. One will get you Oprah and Zynga. The other gets you Inception and Mad Men. One is quick cash, the other is integrity.

I'd rather take a smaller payday from people I like and respect than make crap.

Re: Zynga CEO: "Just copy what they do and do it until you get their numbers."

#35

Post by mattdeboard »

danilocampos wrote: post #7

The "social" games space is ripe for revolution. There's no fun there, nothing virtuous in what they consider gameplay. You don't even play with your friends, so much as exploit them for personal gain. It's a very cynical view of how to spend time with people. When the leading social games company is led by a guy like Pincus, what more can you expect?

What is unfortunate from my perspective (as a former WoW/EQ player) is that "real" social games are now besting Zynga at its own game: turning away from generating content for gameplay's sake and instead (again in my opinion) turning these games into cash farms.

Morally? Well, what's morality in business if you're not using child labor, robbing a nation of its natural resources or engaging in otherwise clearly reprehensible activities? I don't make any claims about morality. It's just out-and-out dumb to blame companies for seeking money-makers for its investors (or parent company, for their investors).

However, what Zynga has done has shown exactly how stupid the game-playing public is, en masse, and how ripe they are for exploitation for just a little bit of time-wasting. One can almost hear the boardroom discussions:

"Look, developers, just take Zynga's model for 'game development,' scale it up for us and keep doing it until we have their numbers."

Irony or coincidence? I keep getting the two confused.

Re: Zynga CEO: "Just copy what they do and do it until you get their numbers."

#37

Post by jarek »

ellyagg wrote: post #15

I'm interested in how Zynga blatantly copying competitors is positioned as evil, but when Google promotes a software and hardware ecosphere that at heart requires the blatant copying of the iPhone, it's considered necessary and smart business. It can't be evil sometimes and not evil others. If copying is just smart business, then Zynga is proving that every shred of copying allowed by law is even smarter business.

And the iPhone "copied" ecospheres of Symbian, RIM, Windows Mobile, etc, adding a twist with an insane focus on shininess and touchscreen primacy. Google, when "copying" the iPhone, put their focus on choice (both of software and hardware) and the attendant openness. Microsoft is about to try to "copy" the iPhone, but with a distinct aesthetic.

The difference between those copies and the Zynga business model? The former actually have differences.

Re: Zynga CEO: "Just copy what they do and do it until you get their numbers."

#38

Post by mattdeboard »

danilocampos wrote: post #34
teej wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please remember that what you find enjoyable could possibly be different than what 40-year-old moms in flyover country find enjoyable. Also realize the latter group is what made Oprah, the Wii, and Zynga billion dollar businesses.

Anyone who takes enjoyment from exploiting their friends in the furtherance of a glorified spreadsheet needs a hug, a trip to the ice cream parlor, and a meatspace game of Uno. There may be a baseline pseudo-fun available in the current crop of social games. Most social games, though, are more interested in bare metal compulsion than truly meritorious, universally recognizable fun . You're really willing to sit there…

Sincere question: Does that make you better than those who enjoy the "quick cash" entertainment? FWIW I think the answer to that is affirmative, but then I'm a walking example of confirmation bias on this topic.

Re: Zynga CEO: "Just copy what they do and do it until you get their numbers."

#39

Post by Andrew_Quentin »

Keyframe wrote: post #24
Andrew_Quentin wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is wiser however to open a bakery in a street where there are none but a bakery is needed.

Right, but this relates to a business venture where you can easily spot where there is a market. Thus, it is wiser to enter the market where you are sure there is one than breaking in new markets by yourself.

Well, it very much depends. If you are the new bakery guy in a street with three or four other bakers, you are entering a market of high competition. The other three bakers are competing perhaps at extreme levels already, whether through branding, building a loyal customer base by providing better customer service, better products, a nice environment, friendly bakers, and price certainly.

Now, if you, the new kid on the block, enter this highly competitive market, you need to be extremely clever to be competing while not loosing money and, if so you manage to compete, they would probably copy you before they die themselves.

If however you decide to take a little bit more time upfront and invest more effort to find a place where your service is needed and there is little competition, you'll be making healthy profits. That is why copying does not win in the long term and even the company in question has now had to start to make their own products.

Re: Zynga CEO: "Just copy what they do and do it until you get their numbers."

#40

Post by jarek »

ketanb wrote: post #27

I attended a startup seminar where speakers were founders from highly successful startups. Their advice was: "First imitate and then innovate". It is a usual business practice to first copy what's working for others, then innovate to make it better and leave the competition behind. It makes sense specially in a web industry where it takes very little time to catchup with competition. Companies have to keep innovating…

There are a ton of number twos and threes on the internet. Quick sample: Bing, Yahoo!, Tagged...
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