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Making the Touch Bar useful by abandoning Apple guidelines

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Re: Making the Touch Bar useful by abandoning Apple guidelines

#211
post #192

I am really "worried" about two features coming out of Apple the past few years: The touch bar mentioned here and the "3D touch" feature of the iPhone 7+. These are "obviously" bad interaction designs yet they come out of a company having almost infinite resources when it comes to design. What is going on here? Is it the marketing department taking over? Is it "we have created this chip and now we have to use it some…

3D Touch is a great way to move a cursor around in text you're writing. Just push in anywhere on the keyboard until it pops, then slide you finger to move the cursor.

I use this all the time; it's much more precise than the old direct touch way to move the cursor.

Re: Making the Touch Bar useful by abandoning Apple guidelines

#212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "Pro" in "MacBook Pro" has never meant "developers, exclusively developers, and nobody but developers". As far as I'm aware, Apple doesn't and hasn't ever explicitly targeted its higher-end models at developers. They just happen to have been good developer machines, and so developers confused that for "I am explicitly the target market of this".

Please enlighten me, what's "Pro" about the touch bar?

Think about all of the ways creative professionals augment their computers for touch-based interactions: jog wheels, sliders, drawing tablets. The touch bar is a good way to make some of those interactions more portable.

Re: Making the Touch Bar useful by abandoning Apple guidelines

#213
post #192

I am really "worried" about two features coming out of Apple the past few years: The touch bar mentioned here and the "3D touch" feature of the iPhone 7+. These are "obviously" bad interaction designs yet they come out of a company having almost infinite resources when it comes to design. What is going on here? Is it the marketing department taking over? Is it "we have created this chip and now we have to use it some…

3D Touch is a great way to move a cursor around in text you're writing. Just push in anywhere on the keyboard until it pops, then slide you finger to move the cursor. I use this all the time; it's much more precise than the old direct touch way to move the cursor.

I’ve always used iPhones and had no idea this feature existed. Thanks.

Re: Making the Touch Bar useful by abandoning Apple guidelines

#214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know I’m just one guy, but I was planning on an upgrade before they released it and I did not, in fact, buy it anyway.

Good. :) The touch bar would be why - as opposed to price, right?

I have been using exclusivly Apple computers for about 25 years. I have been an iOS developer for about 8 of those. The Mac Pro debacle is a whole different rant, but there were three factors related to their new laptops (many other complaints related to developer support, tooling, and so on. again, different rant) that made me decide to stop purchasing my computers from Apple and transition away from iOS development.

First, they introduced the touchbar, which is a feature that is clearly not designed for me (programmer, vim, etc.). In fact it isn't just useless for me; it interferes with the way I work.

Second, using the touchbar as justification, they raised the price to nearly $3000 if you want a 15" screen and a 500G hard drive. Upgrading every 3 or 4 years becomes incredibly expensive.

And third, they deliberately crippled the non-touchbar version of the macbook and will not let you spec it high enough to be competitive with the touchbar versions. You can't even get it with a dedicated graphics card. If the touchbar is so compelling then it should be a feature people choose. Intentionally crippling the machine to force people into an upsell is just maddening. Especially when I'm a developer that contributes to their ecosystem and what they're trying to upsell is completely irrelevant to me.

Not only am I no longer in their target market; they won't even accommodate my needs.

Re: Making the Touch Bar useful by abandoning Apple guidelines

#215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good. :) The touch bar would be why - as opposed to price, right?

I have been using exclusivly Apple computers for about 25 years. I have been an iOS developer for about 8 of those. The Mac Pro debacle is a whole different rant, but there were three factors related to their new laptops (many other complaints related to developer support, tooling, and so on. again, different rant) that made me decide to stop purchasing my computers from Apple and transition away from iOS development…

I read you, and I'd think what you describe is a very common scenario among serious devs. I don't understand Apple's thoughts process at all here.

How Apple has destroyed their high end product (at least as far as devs is concerned) is baffling to me, as the rest of the design is exquisite - at least if you could get use to the short key travel. The 4:3 display is especially a highlight, and so is the unibody with that titanium colour.

I develop on a new, non-touch MBP. Even though it's a basic model, I struggled to believe the price of the unit when compared to a high end Dell XPS 15 or X1 Carbon. I would have preferred the (much) faster touchbar model, as I just use it with an external keyboard/mouse anyway.

(I'll give Apple bonus points for forcing me to boot into OSX before rebooting with Bootcamp to Windows 10 to get CPU virtualisation / Docker enabled.)

Re: Making the Touch Bar useful by abandoning Apple guidelines

#216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good. :) The touch bar would be why - as opposed to price, right?

I have been using exclusivly Apple computers for about 25 years. I have been an iOS developer for about 8 of those. The Mac Pro debacle is a whole different rant, but there were three factors related to their new laptops (many other complaints related to developer support, tooling, and so on. again, different rant) that made me decide to stop purchasing my computers from Apple and transition away from iOS development…

Pretty much same boat. I'm still on a pre-touchbar MB Pro, and it's hard to imagine any circumstances under which I'd buy another Apple machine (maybe if I needed to do native iOS work for some reason). I've held off buying another MB largely because switching habits/software to another OS always seems like something I'd like to shelve. I've managed to keep my current ageing machine viable by offloading increasing amounts of work to AWS, Linode, Raspberry Pis, etc. But this won't go on for ever, and Apple's current laptop line is completely irrelevant to me.

Re: Making the Touch Bar useful by abandoning Apple guidelines

#217
post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not related to the TouchBar, but I don’t understand why Apple won’t improve on the Spaces feature. Why does it force me to use one space for an app. I'm thinking I might be misunderstanding this part, but here's a few tips for you: * Open Mission Control however you invoke it, top right corner there's a + button for adding a new Desktop. You can drag any windows you like into the new desktop or even force an entire…

The fact that these features are so undiscoverable proves the point, I think. The split view management in particular is clunky as hell even when you do know how to use it, as you can't edit the view once it's been created... only tear it down. Whether it's hiding the other desktop thumbnails until you hover, or the fact that fullscreened apps always become the last space (instead of just the next one), there are loa…

> I miss the Apple that did things like letting you right click a document's title bar to access its parent folders, or letting you drag that icon right off the window to manipulate it. They used to understand the principle of direct representation and manipulation. Not a single new OS X feature has made it worth upgrading in recent years.

I actually stuck with Snow Leopard on my personal (not work) laptop for many years, and well, I did a fair amount of work on it too so obviously it was good enough, before I upgraded to Sierra when I bought a new laptop, so I completely get where you're coming from on this.

That said, when we stop nitpicking every detail to death there's still a fair amount of flexibility in the OS, the window management now is light years ahead of where it was on Snow Leopard and the improvements that have accumulated over time while individually not a big deal, make for a really nice package. It was worth upgrading from Snow Leopard even though I was overall pretty happy with it.

Here's another little improvement that Apple made over the years. I am also a long-time Firefox user and one of the more irritating missing features of Firefox has been the lack of Dictionary panel support. In pretty much any Cocoa app you could look up a word from Dictionary.app in any content view and it would show in a nice panel. Not so with Firefox, because while theoretically possible to support, their priorities have always been elsewhere. Mac OS X integration just isn't a high priority for them, and I can live with that. I had an add-on that filled the gap, it didn't support the panel either, but it would send the word over to Dictionary.app which was good enough.

Turns out that at some point after Apple introduced multitouch trackpads they also added the ability to three-finger tap any word in any app and look it up, and it turns out that in spite of Firefox not really supporting the Dictionary panel, this will work just fine in Firefox. You just don't have it in the context menu.

The Services menu will also work just fine in Firefox now, you just don't have access to it from the Context menu (which also would have replaced my add-on just fine had I noticed this sooner).

There is a lot of depth and history to Mac OS X. Apple really only shows off and advertises the newest features, and there is no real user manual for anything, not one that is particularly useful. Apple could write one themselves and provide it free of charge in iBooks pushing delta updates whenever they update the operating system, but the system as a whole is much more flexible than you give it credit for and still retains those little features like being able to right click a document title and get the directory list. You can actually use a dark-themed menu bar now and create Tags in the Finder, and they haven't taken anything out like the Graphite Aqua color scheme I've always preferred.

Yeah they kind of shot themselves in the foot ditching the Software Update utility in favor of App Store updates, and the Mac App Store is trash that I avoid, but on the whole I would say Mac OS X today is much more useful to me than Mac OS X 10 years ago, even as the number of unique apps I've used has dwindled down to about nine or so, three of which are cross platform and all of which are replaceable. I could honestly replace my whole operating system with any BSD, 9front or MINIX at this point without losing anything too substantial, but I would lose a lot of the small touches and refinements that have built up over the years that I'm used to and comfortable with and there's no sign of those going away.

Re: Making the Touch Bar useful by abandoning Apple guidelines

#218
post #170
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like a great application for an e-ink display. No burn-in, low power, and can always emit as much light as the keys on the keyboard do (by front-illuminating the bar when the keyboard backlight is on).

E-inks respond too slow for good touch feedback though so you'd want to have it be clicky or vibrate or something, which adds a moving part.

I thought so too but the Pebble Time had snappy, colorful animations[1] that looked really good, and changed my perception completely on what is possible with e-ink.

With regards to touch feedback, MacBooks come with a pretty hefty “haptic engine” already so it should be possible.

[1] https://youtu.be/v-vP9D062aM

Re: Making the Touch Bar useful by abandoning Apple guidelines

#219

How do you use a computer without function keys?

Normally? The only program I use regularly which needs function keys is htop. The only other I can think of is gitk, and I try to avoid that thing. MacOS/OSX doesn't really have a history of using function keys, so pretty much the only software which does is stuff which was "ported" from other unices where relying on function keys is more standard.

Xcode (a macOS exclusive) uses function keys by default (for debugging). Cross-platform apps (not just ports) very commonly use F keys (eg. JetBrains stuff).

Re: Making the Touch Bar useful by abandoning Apple guidelines

#220
post #206
post #192

I am really "worried" about two features coming out of Apple the past few years: The touch bar mentioned here and the "3D touch" feature of the iPhone 7+. These are "obviously" bad interaction designs yet they come out of a company having almost infinite resources when it comes to design. What is going on here? Is it the marketing department taking over? Is it "we have created this chip and now we have to use it some…

Have you actually used 3D touch? Because I use it just about every day, so much so that it's one of the biggest things I miss when using phones that don't have it. It also isn't touted as a major selling point anymore -- it just quietly exists, serving an extremely useful purpose as a better "right click" for touch screens. The touch bar I agree is major marketing hype.

3D touch isn't supported on the iPhone SE or on any iPads. Given that it's not supported across the iOS hardware line, it's not assigned any essential functionality.

I expect that it'll play a larger role after the next major redesign of iOS in a couple years.

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