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Tesla crash in September showed similarities to fatal Mountain View accident

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Re: Tesla crash in September showed similarities to fatal Mountain View accident

#21

Post by z6 »

brandmeyer wrote: post #11
z6 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No real excuse for Tesla, but seriously why are our roads so bad. This is one of the wealthiest areas in the world and a busy stretch of road.

> but seriously why are our roads so bad. Degraded paint does not a bad road make. Roads are optimized for human drivers that can leverage additional context to make their decisions. Many countries don't even bother to stripe their roads at all.

Huh? Which developed countries don't have road markings on highways? Paint is just one aspect. There are also plenty of cracks and uneven pavement as you can see from the street view.

Re: Tesla crash in September showed similarities to fatal Mountain View accident

#22

Post by omarforgotpwd »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #17

I have now talked with two people who have autopilot in their model S's and both said the problem with autopilot is that it is "too good". Specifically it works completely correctly like 80 - 90% of the time and as a result, if you use it a lot, you start to expect it to be working and not fail. If it beeps then to tell you to take over, you have to mentally get back into the situational awareness of the road and the…

You have to learn how to use it properly and pay attention. I use it a lot and it can drive from San Francisco to LA pretty much without stopping. But every once in a while it does mess up and you just need to make sure you're watching and ready to take over quickly. I agree that it's good enough that people might stop paying attention, but they just need to realize that they have to hold the software's hand in these initial stages. As a matter of fact, being in the drivers seat able to take control makes me much more comfortable in a self driving Tesla than in the back seat of a much more advanced Waymo self driving car

Re: Tesla crash in September showed similarities to fatal Mountain View accident

#23

Post by tlrobinson »

pen2l wrote: post #6
gonehome wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can somebody just go out there and paint the road? There have been at least two other video near collisions of people driving on that section - it seems dangerous.

Holy shit that’s a good idea, we should just fucking do it ourselves . This reminds me when I was living in the Midwest and there was this one spot where I had to do a u turn in my commute which was very dangerous because of some tree branches obstructing view of oncoming traffic. One day I almost got into an accident and since it shook me quite a lot, I wrote an email to the city that the tree branch needed to be tr…

> Holy shit that’s a good idea, we should just fucking do it ourselves.

Seems to work for Portland Anarchist Road Care: https://www.citylab.com/equity/2017/03/portland-anarchists-w...

Re: Tesla crash in September showed similarities to fatal Mountain View accident

#24

Post by schoen »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #17

I have now talked with two people who have autopilot in their model S's and both said the problem with autopilot is that it is "too good". Specifically it works completely correctly like 80 - 90% of the time and as a result, if you use it a lot, you start to expect it to be working and not fail. If it beeps then to tell you to take over, you have to mentally get back into the situational awareness of the road and the…

Brad Templeton has some very relevant discussion of this in https://www.templetons.com/brad/robocars/levels.html

including

> There is additional controversy, it should be noted, about the proposed level 2. In level 2, the system drives, but it is not trusted, and so a human must always be watching and may need to intervene on very short notice -- sub-second -- to correct things if it makes a mistake. [...] As such, while some believe this level is a natural first step on the path to robocars, others believe it should not be attempted, and that only a car able to operate unsupervised without needing urgent attention should be sold.

Re: Tesla crash in September showed similarities to fatal Mountain View accident

#25

Post by heartbreak »

z6 wrote: post #7
bobsil1 wrote: post #3

Gore point stripe faded: https://imgur.com/a/xHq57 Street View: https://www.google.com/maps/@37.6346515,-122.104109,3a,75y,8...

No real excuse for Tesla, but seriously why are our roads so bad. This is one of the wealthiest areas in the world and a busy stretch of road.

Imagine what the roads look like in areas that aren’t nearly as wealthy. 11% of all roads in North Carolina west of Asheville are unpaved. Some counties have 200 miles of unpaved secondary roads. The primary roadway surfaces are far from perfect too.

Re: Tesla crash in September showed similarities to fatal Mountain View accident

#26

Post by oldgradstudent »

bobsil1 wrote: post #3

Gore point stripe faded: https://imgur.com/a/xHq57 Street View: https://www.google.com/maps/@37.6346515,-122.104109,3a,75y,8...

To paraphrase Rumsfeld: As you know, you drive on the roads you have, not the roads you might want or wish to have at a later time.

Re: Tesla crash in September showed similarities to fatal Mountain View accident

#27

Post by refulgentis »

bobsil1 wrote: post #18
jijojv wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're not comparable at all. Google/Waymo uses lidar and has been at it since 2009 and per https://waymo.com/faq they are "fully automated vehicle" but alas not for sale yet. Tesla's self-driving vaporware being sold since Oct'16 is camera only and should be activated any day now ? https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/823632597284691969 " Yes, safety should improve significantly due to autonomy features, even if reg…

Waymo’s approach is also brittle, e.g. to changes in the road since the last map pass. Tesla also uses radar and ultrasonic. Lidar isn’t necessary, just makes depth measurement easier. It’s lower res than cameras, low range, power-inefficient, conflicts with other lidar. Humans drive fine in sunlight, without a coherent IR scanning beam.

better safe than sorry, and I doubt the car seizes up and bails

Re: Tesla crash in September showed similarities to fatal Mountain View accident

#28

Post by brennankreiman »

Biggest thing I gathered was the public safety barrier was damaged from a previous crash, 12 days earlier, so the driver basically hit a hard wall. This has more implications for the US’s infrastructure than Tesla’s safety IMO.

Re: Tesla crash in September showed similarities to fatal Mountain View accident

#29

Post by dangero »

petters wrote: post #9
bobsil1 wrote: post #3

Gore point stripe faded: https://imgur.com/a/xHq57 Street View: https://www.google.com/maps/@37.6346515,-122.104109,3a,75y,8...

But the car should still detect (i) That there is an obstacle fast approaching. (ii) That all cars in front of it is doing something else -- time to slow down.

Right, I fail to see how an obstacle as large as a divider is not seen in time. If this is the case, then the system is inadequate to see many types of debris that could be on the road.

Re: Tesla crash in September showed similarities to fatal Mountain View accident

#30

Post by jonathankoren »

pen2l wrote: post #6
gonehome wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can somebody just go out there and paint the road? There have been at least two other video near collisions of people driving on that section - it seems dangerous.

Holy shit that’s a good idea, we should just fucking do it ourselves . This reminds me when I was living in the Midwest and there was this one spot where I had to do a u turn in my commute which was very dangerous because of some tree branches obstructing view of oncoming traffic. One day I almost got into an accident and since it shook me quite a lot, I wrote an email to the city that the tree branch needed to be tr…

Back in 2001, Richard Ankrom[0], installed his own Interstate 5 exit sign to an existing official Caltrans sign in Los Angeles, in order to better inform drivers of where the exit was.

The sticker, was made to Caltrans and DOT specifications, and affixed in broad daylight. Since the initial installation, Caltrans replaced the sign, but now adds the I-5 signage themselves.

Guerrilla public service can work people. ;)

[0] http://ankrom.org/freeway_signs.html

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