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Google Workers Urge C.E.O. To Pull Out of Pentagon A.I. Project

nytimes.com

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Re: Google Workers Urge C.E.O. To Pull Out of Pentagon A.I. Project

#651

Post by edanm »

samirillian wrote: post #626
larkeith wrote: post #561

> In an interview in November, Mr. Schmidt acknowledged “a general concern in the tech community of somehow the military-industrial complex using their stuff to kill people incorrectly, if you will.” He said he served on the board in part “to at least allow for communications to occur” and suggested that the military would “use this technology to help keep the country safe.” I have a sneaking suspicion that Mr. Schmi…

That is some menacing language. What exactly is the right way to kill a person.

In self defense? In defense of others?

Those are considered cases where killing someone is legitimate by almost everyone.

Re: Google Workers Urge C.E.O. To Pull Out of Pentagon A.I. Project

#652

Post by jackaroe78 »

YetAnotherNick wrote: post #612
bpicolo wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We did one up them, over and over again - just with strategies other than "make one bigger bomb".

Really? How? You can say that world has more impact due to US's military, but how has russia been one uped ever?

The US did it with significantly fewer bullets to the back of necks & babies going hungry.

Re: Google Workers Urge C.E.O. To Pull Out of Pentagon A.I. Project

#653

Post by brandonjm »

bmelton wrote: post #614
mattwad wrote: post #596

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you think the 2nd amendment is under assault? If you look at the list of things our youth were marching for[1], it doesn't say anything about taking guns away. Just like you can't yell "fire" in a movie theater, you shouldn't be able to walk around with a rocket launcher or semi-automatic weapon. Also, there's no way in hell any group of citizens can fight the US army these days so it seems like a moot point.…

You state: > you shouldn't be able to walk around with a rocket launcher or semi-automatic weapon Generally speaking, this statement speaks to a lack of information regarding what semi-automatic is or what it means. Most firearms sold today are semi-automatic. Banning semi-automatic firearms bans the majority of firearms. That you later go on to state "You don't need automatic weapons to defend..." implies to me that…

> repeatedly called for Australian-style gun buybacks, which were mandatory, which are the same as confiscation.

They were mandatory, however gun owners with reasonable reasons (i.e. hunting, sport, recreation) were free to acquire a license to keep their guns (excluding military style weapons). You can currently acquire a semi-automatic rifle (under 10 rounds) with the proper licenses and reasons (farm worker, sport etc.)[1]

- There were no repercussions for illegal guns being handed in (someone handed in a rocket launcher).

- There were no laws preventing someone acquiring a license to keep their gun if they wanted (within the laws which were introduced).

- No police invaded homes to take weapons by force during the amnesty.

Australia's gun-amnesties/buybacks were not the same as confiscation.

[1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Australia#Firearms...

Re: Google Workers Urge C.E.O. To Pull Out of Pentagon A.I. Project

#654

Post by geodel »

YetAnotherNick wrote: post #616
JabavuAdams wrote: post #610

I wonder what Geoff Hinton's position on this is. He seems somewhat anti-military from some side comments in his Neural Networks course.

What does anti military even mean? I can get anti war, but don't you want government has the power to stop terrorist, and military is needed for that.

Well It would mean we can respectfully disagree with terrorists and ask them to not blow things up and engage in bilateral or multilateral talks with governments which they have issues with.

Re: Google Workers Urge C.E.O. To Pull Out of Pentagon A.I. Project

#655

Post by written »

grellas wrote: post #533

Where does one draw a line these days among the personal, the moral, the legal, and the political? The military application in question is legal and is approved by a duly elected government that supports it politically. In earlier days, employees generally would see this as just doing their jobs in developing technology that their employers wanted developed and would not concern themselves about ultimate uses and app…

It can be seen as a message (as you say) to a wider populace that this is all getting in a wrong direction. If government is hiding from its own populace what its doing with drones, who should raise this issue? Why not people working on the drone program (regardless of where exactly). It's much easier for newcommers than incumbents I'd say, so it make sense some Google employees would be ones to protest.

You never know what will be the initial trigger for change, who will be inspired or whatever. Take this guy: http://www.ecns.cn/2018/01-02/286632.shtml Why should some basketball celebrity and his campaign have so much effect?

Re: Google Workers Urge C.E.O. To Pull Out of Pentagon A.I. Project

#656

Post by tclancy »

friedman23 wrote: post #95
chiefalchemist wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The funding come from the DoD because any other appropriate entity is financially starved because the DoD gets so much money. The latest budget provides them: $700,000,000,000 Or as Obama said in the 2016 State of the Union: "We spend more on defense than the next 8 nations COMBINED." Keep in mind, most of that 8 are allies. I struggle to see why we should be praising a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Just imagine if we stopped spending on defense in the 80s when the cold war ended and we had to deal with today's Russia with decades old technology

The Cold War ended in the 90s, not when the Wall came down. Now how would we possibly handle all those T-72s with just M1 Abrams? If anyone still fought conventional wars.

Re: Google Workers Urge C.E.O. To Pull Out of Pentagon A.I. Project

#657

Post by joshuamorton »

mkempe wrote: post #638
hpcjoe wrote: post #570

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FWIW, and I use this example in discussions with non-scientists all the time, Newtonian Gravity, aka the "Law of Gravity", not only isn't a fact, it isn't even correct. General relativity appears to be a closer approximation to nature, as Sir Arthur Eddington demonstrated in 1919[1], and Albert Einstein put forth in 1915[2]. That writers continue to conflate the definition of legal "law" with scientific "law" is in s…

You're muddying the water and completely missing the point: Facts are what they are, regardless of what people may say or feel about them. The laws of physics, such as Ohm's Law, can be discovered and are facts even were people to deny their validity. The same is true for all facts of nature, including the nature of humans and their rights.

Scientific fact is testable and falsifiable. If you're going to claim that natural rights are fact, I'm going to ask that you provide a testable hypothesis that demonstrates the right to life as a law.

Re: Google Workers Urge C.E.O. To Pull Out of Pentagon A.I. Project

#658

Post by thesagan »

DontGiveTwoFlux wrote: post #508
weirdstuff wrote: post #443

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure about that. Wasn't the Doomsday Clock just moved back to an all-time dangerous spot?

The doomsday clock is a human institution of scientists, though hardly scientific. They see it as their duty to raise alarms. But ask yourself- are we really closer to civilization ending Doomsday than at the height of the Cold War?

I don't see why not. Seems nuclear weapons and war are still a thing. So much so they moved the hands of the Doomsday clock again to these heights.

Re: Google Workers Urge C.E.O. To Pull Out of Pentagon A.I. Project

#659

Post by komali2 »

wu-ikkyu wrote: post #398
komali2 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hear you, and I want to make a "times change" argument. This is my perspective, because I read too much scifi: I can conceive of a couple possibilities in 300 years. 1. Humanity is gone or stone-aged. Either because it failed to colonize before being wiped out by disease, because it nuked itself, or because it implemented AI in a way that got itself killed. 2. Humanity has turned peaceful, formed a global community…

If you're so worried about the world destroying itself with its own weapons, how are you going to enforce your weapons ban without using weapons?

The same way Japan "enforces" around violent and petty crime - by removing the need for it, and establishing a culture opposed to it.

It's not nearly as easy as that but that's the basic summation of my philosophy around the idea.

Re: Google Workers Urge C.E.O. To Pull Out of Pentagon A.I. Project

#660

Post by pryce »

donw wrote: post #646
mattwad wrote: post #596

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you think the 2nd amendment is under assault? If you look at the list of things our youth were marching for[1], it doesn't say anything about taking guns away. Just like you can't yell "fire" in a movie theater, you shouldn't be able to walk around with a rocket launcher or semi-automatic weapon. Also, there's no way in hell any group of citizens can fight the US army these days so it seems like a moot point.…

The average Joe or Jane gun owner in the United States can not purchase, and does not own, automatic weapons. Literally tens of millions of responsible Americans walk around, every day, carrying semi-automatic weapons, and this is not a problem. This is also true in the Czech Republic! Shall-issue, just like Texas. They are one of the safest countries in the EU. You are far more likely to be shot by a cop, than by a…

> Literally tens of millions of responsible Americans walk around, every day, carrying semi-automatic weapons, and this is not a problem.

The idea that 'this is not a problem' is exactly the thing under dispute, so I don't think it should be cheerfully asserted

Objectors to this climate of easy access to firearms -wrong or right- will point to things like:

* criminal gun violence and mass shootings (a phenomenon that is staggeringly rare in most other comparable nations) but also to

* accidental gun deaths, frequently including of children, to

* suicides facilitated by this easy access to firearms, to

* the trigger-happiness of American cops being directly related to the significant likelihood that anyone those cops interact with is armed, compared to countries like the Australia, Japan, or New Zealand.

They also point to a political climate in which research into gun violence is blocked, and where measures such as universal background checks are supported by huge number citizens, but the political situation prevents these from being enacted.

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