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What Did Ancient Romans Do Without Toilet Paper?

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Re: What Did Ancient Romans Do Without Toilet Paper?

#181

Post by cabinguy »

manav wrote: post #69
tziki wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doubt it would take off, considering the low adoption rates of "regular" spray toilets in the west. It's a relatively marginal improvement after all.

Cost of bidets are coming down a lot with more domestic manufacturers. At $200-300 for a Toto-like attachment I upgraded all of my toilets. It's hard to go back once you are used to it.

I agree 100%. I purchased bidets as Christmas presents for many family members this past year after a visit to South Korea (where they were the norm in the hotels I visited). I've even found myself telling my neighbors about the advantages of bidets over cocktails (which is kind of weird). I wouldn't want to live without one, and I spread the word.

Re: What Did Ancient Romans Do Without Toilet Paper?

#182

Post by lulmerchant »

makotech222 wrote: post #147
lulmerchant wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely, nothing has brought a greater level of prosperity and equality to the world than free market capitalism. This is simply an empirical fact. Just like it is an empirical fact that every socialist nation in history has created huge levels of poverty and inequality.

Hey, remember when the USSR started and they eliminated homelessness within 10 years. And also, were the first to space. In addition, had citizens that were better fed than the US, had more doctors per capita. And this is just from State Capitalism, not Socialism.

No I don’t, because that never happened. I do remember millions of soviet citizens dying from famine though, and millions more dying from state sponsored killing. I don’t remember any famines taking place in developed free markets during that period. However, I have a pretty clear memory of the two class system that developed in all of the socialist nations that existed in the 20th century. One of the starving poor, and another of the rich oligarchs.

Re: What Did Ancient Romans Do Without Toilet Paper?

#183

Post by drewmol »

bandrami wrote: post #168
adrianratnapala wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, so cost and cleanability might be incentive so have doors like that, but not incentives to make regulations. Those regulations likely there for "decency and safety". E.g. to discourage people having sex, or to make it more obvious if someone passes out. That is: the regulations really are there to make reduce privacy. There might be good arguments for reducing privacy, but that is still the proximate goal of the…

I think the end goal is making it harder to do heroin in a bathroom.

Haha, probably cocaine as well. Some public restrooms seem designed to minimize flat surfaces, private access to clean water, and secluded locations, while others (like in some night clubs) have randomly placed shelves with hard, easily wipeable surfaces, etc.

Re: What Did Ancient Romans Do Without Toilet Paper?

#184

Post by jacquesm »

krrrh wrote: post #124
bambax wrote: post #54

> To ancient Romans, the practice of sitting on a shared toilet in an open room full of people was entirely ordinary. That's a funny thing to say for an American, because, to Europeans, American toilets are much too public: doors don't go to the floor or ceiling, and even "walls" are thin sheets of wood/plastic loosely joined together with huge spaces between them. It seems, Americans don't trust one another to sit a…

On the other hand, I could never get over how many German washrooms I have see that had urinals in a corner such that they couldn’t both be used comfortably. I have never seen anything like it in the states. Far from the most extreme example: https://www.dropbox.com/s/8329oawvs9utt4n/german_urinals.jpg...

Cozy.

Re: What Did Ancient Romans Do Without Toilet Paper?

#185

Post by mysterypie »

__s wrote: post #89
52-6F-62 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It seems, Americans don't trust one another to sit alone in a toilet; I still don't know if it's for security purposes (to check if someone has a heart failure?) or puritanical reasons (make sure people aren't having sex?) but it sure feels strange, and very difficult to get used to when one comes from a different culture. I've always thought it was far less interesting than that: they're cheaper and faster to inst…

There's regulations on minimum gap size (had a client in the industry) https://travel.stackexchange.com/questions/26620/why-do-publ...

So the clearance is needed for the footrests found on wheelchairs, and if you make the stall big enough, you don't have to provide the floor gaps. It's interesting that the ADA regulations have become an important factor in design starting in the 1990s, yet I remember that public restrooms have had those floor gaps since much earlier than that. I wonder if the logic went like this: floor gaps have existed since at least the 1960s --> people with wheelchairs found the gaps useful to maneuver in the restroom --> the ADA codified this into a regulation in the 1990s.

To save everyone from having to wade through stack exchange, here is the ultimate link[1]:

"604.8.1.4 Toe Clearance

The front partition and at least one side partition shall provide a toe clearance of 9 inches (230 mm) minimum above the finish floor and 6 inches (150 mm) deep minimum beyond the compartment-side face of the partition, exclusive of partition support members.

EXCEPTION: Toe clearance at the front partition is not required in a compartment greater than 62 inches (1575 mm) deep with a wall-hung water closet or 65 inches (1650 mm) deep with a floor-mounted water closet."

[1] https://up.codes/viewer/ada/chapter/6/plumbing-elements-and-...

Re: What Did Ancient Romans Do Without Toilet Paper?

#186

Post by jacquesm »

gkya wrote: post #27
skookumchuck wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the result of free markets. Centralized economic planning is simply unable to deal with the complexity.

Wut? Do you really think you can convince me that USSR did not have toilet papers or pencils? Or send the first man to space? This is not about what economical model is better. People can collaborate both under central economic planning and through free markets. One might certainly be more preferable to the other, but that's totally a different conversation (I'm not a fan of either, for the records).

Toilet paper, lightbulbs, stockings. I brought carloads of that stuff from the west back in the stone age.

Re: What Did Ancient Romans Do Without Toilet Paper?

#187

Post by chrischen »

> Like Gayetty’s sheets, Scott tissue was originally marketed as a medicinal product

Interesting. The TOTO washlet style toilet was marketed originally in the US as a medical device (meant for people who had difficulty wiping). It never caught on in the US but caught on in Japan instead. I'm wondering if the washlet is the next technological advancement like the toilet paper was compared to the Roman butt-brush. In theory a butt brush can still work today, although considered unsanitary, but a wipe with paper is just as unsanitary when compared to flushing with water. Even a non-electronic bidet is vastly superior to toilet paper.

Re: What Did Ancient Romans Do Without Toilet Paper?

#188

Post by chrischen »

donw wrote: post #178
Baeocystin wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bidet use is accelerating rapidly* in the US. Which doesn't surprise me, really. When I got one, most of my family was surprised. As they tried it out of curiosity, most of them were really happy with how clean they felt, and have gone on to get one for their own homes. I'm sure they have other friends that come over and will experience the same. It's an exponential effect. (* source: https://www.proremodeler.com/bid…

If I have taken only one thing away from living in Japan for near-on a decade, it is that the washlet (aka the cyber-bidet) is, quite possibly, mankind's greatest invention. The predecessor to the above were small squeeze bottles full of water, and you can still buy various versions of these today, which are heaven-on-earth as a wilderness backpacker. I picked up a travel bidet[1] for backpacking, and it has proven t…

There are non-electronic bidets that I found worked just as well (you rotated a nob to spray water using just water pressure).

Re: What Did Ancient Romans Do Without Toilet Paper?

#189

Post by meddlepal »

bambax wrote: post #54

> To ancient Romans, the practice of sitting on a shared toilet in an open room full of people was entirely ordinary. That's a funny thing to say for an American, because, to Europeans, American toilets are much too public: doors don't go to the floor or ceiling, and even "walls" are thin sheets of wood/plastic loosely joined together with huge spaces between them. It seems, Americans don't trust one another to sit a…

You're over-thinking the situation... it's simply cheaper. This is America we're talking about after all, if we can do it cheaper, we will.

Re: What Did Ancient Romans Do Without Toilet Paper?

#190

Post by macrael »

bambax wrote: post #54

> To ancient Romans, the practice of sitting on a shared toilet in an open room full of people was entirely ordinary. That's a funny thing to say for an American, because, to Europeans, American toilets are much too public: doors don't go to the floor or ceiling, and even "walls" are thin sheets of wood/plastic loosely joined together with huge spaces between them. It seems, Americans don't trust one another to sit a…

I've heard (but not confirmed) that it is expense related. If you wholly enclose the toilet in a room, now that little room needs its own fire extinguisher nozzle (and maybe other regs?) but if it's mostly open, you only have to make the overall room safe.
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