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Michigan OKs Nestlé Water Extraction, Despite Public Comments Against It

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Re: Michigan OKs Nestlé Water Extraction, Despite Public Comments Against It

#31

Post by ucaetano »

Pfhreak wrote: post #28
ucaetano wrote: post #12

> Nestlé's request to the Michigan Department of Environmental Quality to pump 576,000 gallons of water each day For perspective, all of Michigan uses 9 billion gallons of water each day. Nestle will be using 0.006% of what the state uses. Looking just at groundwater, Michigan uses 690 million gallons of water per day. Nestle will be using 0.08% of what the state uses. This is irrelevant. And I'm glad the personal op…

This is not a useful comparison. It equates statewide use to a factory that will presumably source water from a focused area. What are the conditions like at the site of the factory? Can that site accommodate that intake? Is 0.5m the final scale of the factory? Maybe it's not a big deal, maybe it is, but you can't use wide geographic generalizations like this to dismiss the concern.

That is all covered by the environmental report, as it should be:

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/deq/deq-dwmad-eh-swpu-Fina...

4) The supply potential of the water source, considering quantity, quality, and reliability and safe yield of hydrologically interconnected water sources;

Application materials, extensive evaluation and consideration by staff, along with experience with the aquifer in the area, lead staff to conclude that the aquifer can sustain the proposed withdrawal without deleterious effects to the dependent resources.

The ruckus and commotion by the public is just pointless and useless activism.

Re: Michigan OKs Nestlé Water Extraction, Despite Public Comments Against It

#32

Post by castis »

ucaetano wrote: post #12

> Nestlé's request to the Michigan Department of Environmental Quality to pump 576,000 gallons of water each day For perspective, all of Michigan uses 9 billion gallons of water each day. Nestle will be using 0.006% of what the state uses. Looking just at groundwater, Michigan uses 690 million gallons of water per day. Nestle will be using 0.08% of what the state uses. This is irrelevant. And I'm glad the personal op…

Maybe their opinions were based on principle. I know you do not care, but your dismissal of 80k people you don't and will never know says volumes about you as a person.

Re: Michigan OKs Nestlé Water Extraction, Despite Public Comments Against It

#33

Post by slavik81 »

rch wrote: post #8
jumelles wrote: post #2

> 80,945 against and 75 in favor Life in a democracy?

> We don't have the power to say no arbitrarily. We can't just say no for reasons that aren't attached to the law. Seems like the residents need to direct their energy towards lawmakers.

A government agency is similar to a court in that sense. It doesn't matter how many people want someone thrown in prison, the judge must have a reason based on existing law to do so.

Re: Michigan OKs Nestlé Water Extraction, Despite Public Comments Against It

#34

Post by [deleted] »

koolba wrote: post #10
jumelles wrote: post #2

> 80,945 against and 75 in favor Life in a democracy?

From the article: >> But despite deep public opposition, the agency concluded that the company's plan met with legal standards. I’ll take equal interpretation of the law over mob rule any day of the week.

[deleted]

Re: Michigan OKs Nestlé Water Extraction, Despite Public Comments Against It

#35

Post by a2tech »

You’ll read a lot of comments on this, both good and bad. A lot of passionate arguments have been made on both sides. I have two things to add to it—and feel free to take them as you will. People I know in the area with wells had them go dry after the nestle plant opened. These were wells that had previously been high (for wells) throughout, just drying up. The plant also got special tax rebates and other incentives to open with the idea they’d make it back with taxes and jobs but it’s never materialized.

Re: Michigan OKs Nestlé Water Extraction, Despite Public Comments Against It

#36

Post by malvosenior »

Can someone who knows more about this issue explain how Nestle bottling water has anything to do with lead in Flint's water or Detroit shutting off water to people who were delinquent on their bill? They seem totally unrelated. If Nestle didn't do this would it fix Flint's lead problem? Would it help people pay their water bills?

I don't see how these issues are connected other than "water in Michigan". Am I missing something?

Re: Michigan OKs Nestlé Water Extraction, Despite Public Comments Against It

#37

Post by nrdgrl »

Pharylon wrote: post #26
Turing_Machine wrote: post #7

The Muskegon River (the main drainage for the area) has a discharge of 1,450 cubic feet per second at Evart, Michigan (where this facility is located). That is about 11,000 gallons per second, or about 937 million gallons per day. The facility proposes to pump about half a millon gallons per day. Tempest, meet teapot. https://waterdata.usgs.gov/mi/nwis/current/?type=flow

Are they pumping the water from the Muskegon River? No? OK... then... uh... what are you talking about?

Nope, they are pumping from the "White Pine Springs well". The aquifer likely refills at a much slower rate than the flow of the Muskegon River

Re: Michigan OKs Nestlé Water Extraction, Despite Public Comments Against It

#38

Post by Retric »

Turing_Machine wrote: post #7

The Muskegon River (the main drainage for the area) has a discharge of 1,450 cubic feet per second at Evart, Michigan (where this facility is located). That is about 11,000 gallons per second, or about 937 million gallons per day. The facility proposes to pump about half a millon gallons per day. Tempest, meet teapot. https://waterdata.usgs.gov/mi/nwis/current/?type=flow

The facility is only one of many uses for water in the area. Suggesting the rivers flow is 100% free to use is extremely misguided.

Re: Michigan OKs Nestlé Water Extraction, Despite Public Comments Against It

#39

Post by gameswithgo »

koolba wrote: post #10
jumelles wrote: post #2

> 80,945 against and 75 in favor Life in a democracy?

From the article: >> But despite deep public opposition, the agency concluded that the company's plan met with legal standards. I’ll take equal interpretation of the law over mob rule any day of the week.

I notice a lot lately, maybe it has always been so, that some large powerful entity will insist that the citizen has been screwed over according to all proper procedures and applicable laws...

Re: Michigan OKs Nestlé Water Extraction, Despite Public Comments Against It

#40

Post by ucaetano »

castis wrote: post #32
ucaetano wrote: post #12

> Nestlé's request to the Michigan Department of Environmental Quality to pump 576,000 gallons of water each day For perspective, all of Michigan uses 9 billion gallons of water each day. Nestle will be using 0.006% of what the state uses. Looking just at groundwater, Michigan uses 690 million gallons of water per day. Nestle will be using 0.08% of what the state uses. This is irrelevant. And I'm glad the personal op…

Maybe their opinions were based on principle. I know you do not care, but your dismissal of 80k people you don't and will never know says volumes about you as a person.

> I know you do not care, but your dismissal of 80k people you don't and will never know says volumes about you as a person.

Thanks for the ad hominem.

It isn't that I care or not, approving this well is a technical environmental decision, and shouldn't depend on how much people scream. It doesn't matter if there were 10 million people against it, the agency isn't there to evaluate public support for a project, it is there to evaluate the technical and environmental aspects of the project.

Don't let an angry crowd make technical decisions.

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