Suspect in YouTube Shooting Angry That Her Videos Had Been 'De-Monetized' • Hacker News Board

Re: Suspect in YouTube Shooting Angry That Her Videos Had Been 'De-Monetized'

#281

Post by meri_dian » Wed, Apr 04, 2018, 2:47 PM UTC

where_do_i_live wrote: post #222

meri_dian wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, and the crazy people are the ones who, when desperate and angry, try to kill 3 innocent people and then themselves. I don't understand the equivocation here. It seems a symptom of the broad inability in modern social thinking to pin any responsibility on individuals. While this stems from our desire to root out systematic issues, which is necessary and important, it should not be the only thing we care about. In…

Hate to break it to you, but no one is dead outside of the shooter currently. You might want to take some of your individual responsibility and correct your statement.

Changed it, though "trying to kill 3 people" rather than "killed 3 people" are morally equivalent.

Re: Suspect in YouTube Shooting Angry That Her Videos Had Been 'De-Monetized'

#282

Post by gowld » Wed, Apr 04, 2018, 2:48 PM UTC

dspillett wrote: post #174

bertil wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get how that gets some channel into trouble: politics, guns. Than channel was apparently a Iranian-American vegan animal rights activist. I’m not a vegan, but I don’t see the point in opposing them. Other than the banter about how in-your-face they can be, do people violently oppose vegans, or animal rights activists? She was upset over a workout video being age-gated: who would oppose that video?

> do people violently oppose vegans I doubt being vegan is the key here. Though there is a fair amount of bullying, through ad-homenim attacks or idiots just trying to wind people up for shits & giggles. There are also some with a persecution complex that seem to take even the slightest criticism as a violent attack. This is not constrained to veganism though: there are similarly unhinged people in many walks of life…

Animal rights activists are fighting back against animal exploiters' chronic lack of moral sensibility.

Re: Suspect in YouTube Shooting Angry That Her Videos Had Been 'De-Monetized'

#283

Post by tedunangst » Wed, Apr 04, 2018, 2:49 PM UTC

mschuster91 wrote: post #13

jimmies wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But she said she talked to the support team...

I mean a support team that has actual freedoms to help the customer and is not forced to operate on a script that has only one option to tell the customer: You're screwed. Or, even better: as here the case seems to be that the shooter depended on Youtube as income, why shouldn't she have the right to have her effective "firing" appealed in a proper court of law, like in Germany?

How does the law work in Germany? If youtube pulls ads from a German's videos, they can demand to get paid anyway?

Re: Suspect in YouTube Shooting Angry That Her Videos Had Been 'De-Monetized'

#284

Post by jacquesm » Wed, Apr 04, 2018, 2:49 PM UTC

tedunangst wrote: post #260

jacquesm wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Youtube doesn't have 'whims', it's a company. If you have beef with a company you either take it to court or you take your lumps. You do not go and shoot at the company employees who are just like you dependent on that company for their income, the difference is that they have an employment contract with certain rights and you chose to go for the fame and the glory. There are people here who write that "It was only a…

> There are people here who write that "It was only a matter of time until one of those furious victims took up a gun to get revenge." and that's well into apologist territory. Are they wrong? It's only a matter of time until lots of bad things happen. Still bad, still going to happen.

Yes they are wrong. "Victims"? The only victims in this story were the people that she shot.

Re: Suspect in YouTube Shooting Angry That Her Videos Had Been 'De-Monetized'

#285

Post by ma2rten » Wed, Apr 04, 2018, 2:49 PM UTC

INTPenis wrote: post #103

Americans in the comment section are reacting about this woman being a disgruntled user, angry about perceived discrimination from Youtube, down on her luck, suicidal. Me, a european, I'm reacting to how easily she found a gun. I hate to bring up this very toxic debate, my comment will seem like fishing for trouble. Yet you have to understand our perspective. Not every lunatic where I live can find a gun when they ne…

I haven't thought about this before, but there is something about shooting someone with a gun that's more impersonal than stabbing someone.

I am pretty sure I would never do something like this woman did, but if I was really angry at an organization I would see myself more likely to go to their headquarters and shoot everyone than go to stab everyone there.

Re: Suspect in YouTube Shooting Angry That Her Videos Had Been 'De-Monetized'

#286

Post by Applejinx » Wed, Apr 04, 2018, 2:49 PM UTC

danso wrote: post #97

deftnerd wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While they're not directly responsible, the problem was entirely of their making. They created a whole new profession (even my 8-year-old son wants to grow up to be a "professional youtubber") and then arbitrarily destroy careers. The created an environment where people could work hard to create their own destiny while giving themselves the ability to destroy those destinies without cause or recourse. It was only a m…

So basically every company who has ever laid off or fired an employee should expect at some point to fall victim to a mass shooting?

Those who make a huge point of abstracting all their decisions so that no specific point of human accountability can be defined, yes.

If you get your plans and (faltering) livelihood ruined by some Big Boss Man, you absolutely could be filled with rage, but the chances that you will direct that rage at some random secretary in a wholly other division is nil. You can identify the boss that fired you, you are enraged, maybe you try to revenge yourself and maybe not, and maybe you feel that just telling the world how rotten that guy is, will suffice.

If you're not allowed any focus for your rage because the organization is completely abstracted, those are the conditions under which 'just any employee' might seem like just as valid a target: there is literally nobody available who would seem more to blame.

So, lay off people in person if you want to minimize (a) the chances of an attacker mass murdering just employees, and (b) the chances of that person being completely deprived of any other outlet for their rage. I mean, if they knew who you were they could make a doll of you and stick pins in it. How are you going to make a voodoo doll of 'Youtube'? How are you going to let people go 'My monetization got taken away, and I'm down $30 a month I was using to feed my kid, and it's THAT GUY's fault!'

If you expose only the blameless as a target, you take away the chance for people to vent more productively, just for your own personal comfort. You're a cog in the Google machine, but you've got human shields.

Re: Suspect in YouTube Shooting Angry That Her Videos Had Been 'De-Monetized'

#287

Post by post_break » Wed, Apr 04, 2018, 2:51 PM UTC

mrtksn wrote: post #280

post_break wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it wasn't a gun it could have been a knife. Or like the epidemic over seas, a bunch of acid thrown on peoples faces. We don't know how she got the gun, but in America, if you have no criminal background, haven't done anything crazy, and they do a background check, you can purchase a weapon. You can't ban crazy, and until we have some way of seeing into the future, you can't stop all crimes. Also, our gun ownership…

Do you have examples of mass acid attacks, mass stabbing attacks in Europe? Maybe we can do a quick sanity check for the hypothesis about lunatics using knives and acids when guns are not available? Sure, there were some jihadist attacks but these are institutional attacks, I can't really recall having any angry person going on a rampage. In Europe, the act of an angry or crazy person will probably result in a break…

Well if we're trying to lump the word "mass" into it then it gets to be tougher, here is an example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell_Square_stabbing

Acid attacks aren't broken down into how many victims so I can't find out if there were multiple injuries: https://www.cnn.com/2018/01/26/europe/london-acid-attacks-20...

My point is that crazy finds a way. : https://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-crime-murder/lond...

Re: Suspect in YouTube Shooting Angry That Her Videos Had Been 'De-Monetized'

#288

Post by YetAnotherNick » Wed, Apr 04, 2018, 2:51 PM UTC

isseu wrote: post #11

mschuster91 wrote: post #6

I don't sympathize with shooting up a company's headquarters at all, but I feel that this could have been avoided by forcing Youtube (and, for that matter, all other social networks!) to have a way to reach an actual human support. In the end, this is one of the "externalities" that get forced upon society when the big companies decide to cut corners on support. Some will... take matters into their own hands. Be it b…

The problem is not Youtube support ...

You can blame everything on a lunatic and that is right thing, but it won't change anything.

Re: Suspect in YouTube Shooting Angry That Her Videos Had Been 'De-Monetized'

#289

Post by simias » Wed, Apr 04, 2018, 2:51 PM UTC

deftnerd wrote: post #70

AlexC04 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Be sure to remind youtube of their power and responsibility after tragedy strikes. To be clear - they aren't actually responsible for an active shooter showing up on campus. It sounds like you're saying they could have some responsibility in someone coming to their office with a gun.

While they're not directly responsible, the problem was entirely of their making. They created a whole new profession (even my 8-year-old son wants to grow up to be a "professional youtubber") and then arbitrarily destroy careers. The created an environment where people could work hard to create their own destiny while giving themselves the ability to destroy those destinies without cause or recourse. It was only a m…

They didn't create anything, streamers and "Youtubers" would have existed with or without Youtube. They'd exist on twitch and other services if Youtube went down. Youtube was just at the right place at the right time and there's a lot more to youtube than e-celebs.

>It was only a matter of time until one of those furious victims took up a gun to get revenge.

Damn, that's a pretty fatalist viewpoint and an odd way to state that. "We updated the ToS, somebody went and shot a few of our employees, oh well, what can we do?". It's very tempting to let the discussion stray into "Americans and gun violence" at this point but I guess I'll stop there.

Re: Suspect in YouTube Shooting Angry That Her Videos Had Been 'De-Monetized'

#290

Post by YetAnotherNick » Wed, Apr 04, 2018, 2:51 PM UTC

sh4z wrote: post #100

jmull wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see a how you could come to a reasonable accommodation with someone who thinks, "You will let me do anything I want on your platform (with full benefits) or I'll shoot you." This doesn't look like a support issue at all to me.

His point is if the person could have reached some kind of support they might never have ended up in such a desperate situation. When I get really mistreated / fooled and can't reach any kind of human support and none of the "robotic" support options work - it's incredibly frustrating. Not to the point where I'd shoot someone, but I've definitely smashed my fist on a table once or twice.

I have been once in such point of frustration when I had not received prize for what I won in the competition and the person whom I was in contact with did not said that they can't pay me but just ignored my mail. And it was not even a huge amount, but it could be used for a semester in college.

Edit: I was emphasizing that I became irrationally frustrated, not that I didn't kill someone.