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Optimistic Nihilism (2017)

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Re: Optimistic Nihilism (2017)

#61

Post by state_less »

Sohakes wrote: post #37
stcredzero wrote: post #8

Nihilists are often guilty of something which many teenagers are guilty of, which I call epistemological narcissism. Basically, they think they know it all, pretty much. The cure for this is to take the extrapolation strategy which PG uses in "What You Can't Say." ( http://www.paulgraham.com/say.html ) However, you should instead apply it to "what you can't predict." Would any of our ancestors of 400 or 1000 years ag…

To me at least, the lack of meaning comes to what we are. If we are just a really complex phenomenon, then why are we more important then other such things? If our consciousness is just emergent behavior of a lot of brain cells communicating, then why are we more important than the particles of air making wind, or ants acting like a being together? Even the concept of self or being is a illusion, our sensation of con…

I'll try. We are different than the wind in that we tend to be more ordered than random particles bouncing around. Our cells are ordered and so too is our DNA, which depends on specific ordering of molecules. This ordering of our world has increase with our number, not only human, but life in general. We export our entropy. It looks like we are going to further this ordering of matter when you look at our advancements in processors, memories, 3d printing, etc. We are becoming the master of matter and the trajectory is geometric in advancement. If we hold out, we may well order all the matter around us. Frankly, I'm not sure what such a system would think or what a thought looks like to it, but I think it might be okay, tending towards a lack of self-harm or disorder. Some views may be more in keeping with that order and they'll proliferate if it's important that they do.

Personally, I'm happy if we learn to live better with each other and thrive together.

Re: Optimistic Nihilism (2017)

#62

Post by dakrootie »

stcredzero wrote: post #41
white-flame wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you don't know the future, how do you know if what you do will or won't matter in the grand scheme of things? If future understanding of the grand scheme is unpredictable, then that form of decision making seems equally likely to miss the mark as reactionary non-decisions or intentionally tribally inclusive decisions. You don't really gain anything by switching between those perspectives, or by dismissing one of…

You don't really gain anything by switching between those perspectives, or by dismissing one of them, by your premise. I don't care if you call yourself a buddhist or a "happy nihilist" so long as you live with yourself and interact with others as if you had a basis for hope . As for your assertion that "You don't really gain anything" -- hope is something truly valuable to gain or to lose. In other words, "Don't be…

I’m baffled as to why nihilism is equated with hopelessness or “asshole-ism” when I speak to others about it. I (almost jokingly) call myself a nihilist because I truly believe my life has no meaning. I am but one organism in a giant soup of beautiful organisms. If I have “meaning” - in my humble opinion - it means the maggots in my compost bin have equal meaning. I consider us, them, whatever...all a curious, albeit awesome, accident of nature.

While I think my life has no point (in the “being an accident” sense) I am exhilarated to be alive. How cool it is to experience wind, sun, procreation, driving, art, love, and on and on!

I truly believe nihilism and “hope” are not mutually exclusive. I still get up every day and do cool shit cause it’s fascinating to be alive. I can affect things, make things, and help other “accidents” with their problems.

Nihilism to me is humility. It’s a big universe and we mean f-all in the grand scheme. Enjoy the ride and make of it what you will.

Re: Optimistic Nihilism (2017)

#63

Post by ambrosite »

undoware wrote: post #16
undoware wrote: post #11

This is a fantastic sample of the sort of romantic philosophizing that animates the technosphere. It elides from some reasonable, nineteenth-century claims about atheism and materialsm to full-on AI worship without a moment's hesitation or reflection. It uses ecological and physiological fragility to justify the headlong embrace of more durable, synthetic minds -- as though all that were valuable about the human expe…

Watching everyone downvote me without an argument is also hilarous. Thanks, I can see I'm not welcome in this church, I'll see myself out

No downvote from me; I agree with what you said and I appreciate your having the courage to say it. The writer of this article has dumped one form of religion and replaced it with another, right down to the wishful thinking about a "super empathetic" supreme intelligence, and hope for immortality.

Re: Optimistic Nihilism (2017)

#64

Post by SmooL »

Sohakes wrote: post #37
stcredzero wrote: post #8

Nihilists are often guilty of something which many teenagers are guilty of, which I call epistemological narcissism. Basically, they think they know it all, pretty much. The cure for this is to take the extrapolation strategy which PG uses in "What You Can't Say." ( http://www.paulgraham.com/say.html ) However, you should instead apply it to "what you can't predict." Would any of our ancestors of 400 or 1000 years ag…

To me at least, the lack of meaning comes to what we are. If we are just a really complex phenomenon, then why are we more important then other such things? If our consciousness is just emergent behavior of a lot of brain cells communicating, then why are we more important than the particles of air making wind, or ants acting like a being together? Even the concept of self or being is a illusion, our sensation of con…

| "we should maximize human happiness"

I can't address everything, but the one reason to do that, at least for yourself, is because it's simply more fun to be happy than sad. Just because _X_ doesn't matter, doesn't change that _X_ might make you feel a certain way.

Re: Optimistic Nihilism (2017)

#65

Post by knuththetruth »

toren wrote: post #43
knuththetruth wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Peterson is a con artist who appeals to desperate and impressionable men that can’t be bothered to read the Nietzsche and Jung that he only skims for sound bites.

Ah the old "Peterson is a con artist/fraud", aka "I automatically disagree with what he says because he's not a left-wing atheist" or some slight variation of that. The more people are told to stay away from his work for such intellectually lazy reasons (such that he's inflammatory, offensive, etc, primarily pushed by journalistic hit pieces), the greater the odds of the uninitiated taking a look at his work and find…

I’d be more convinced he wasn’t a con artist if there weren’t swarms of new accounts on HN recommending/defending him every chance they get :)

Re: Optimistic Nihilism (2017)

#66

Post by loupeabody »

knuththetruth wrote: post #65
toren wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah the old "Peterson is a con artist/fraud", aka "I automatically disagree with what he says because he's not a left-wing atheist" or some slight variation of that. The more people are told to stay away from his work for such intellectually lazy reasons (such that he's inflammatory, offensive, etc, primarily pushed by journalistic hit pieces), the greater the odds of the uninitiated taking a look at his work and find…

I’d be more convinced he wasn’t a con artist if there weren’t swarms of new accounts on HN recommending/defending him every chance they get :)

It's more telling that you've used your month-old account to drag his name through the mud just as opportunistically as those you accuse.

All you're doing is charging up the topic with more contention than you've found it with. The consequences of doing so are regressive for all related causes, especially your own.

If you find yourself elsewhere in life championing free thought and open discourse, remember this comment and know that you are a hypocrite and an enemy to your own virtues.

Re: Optimistic Nihilism (2017)

#67

Post by husainalshehhi »

If nihilism is true, then it follows that our lives are very little to no significance. And if that's the case, then we should do what pleases us rather what is right, since we have one life to live.

In any case, I think Alvin Plantinga has something good to say about science and religion in his book: science, religion, and naturalism, where the conflict really lies.

Re: Optimistic Nihilism (2017)

#69

Post by tscs37 »

stcredzero wrote: post #8

Nihilists are often guilty of something which many teenagers are guilty of, which I call epistemological narcissism. Basically, they think they know it all, pretty much. The cure for this is to take the extrapolation strategy which PG uses in "What You Can't Say." ( http://www.paulgraham.com/say.html ) However, you should instead apply it to "what you can't predict." Would any of our ancestors of 400 or 1000 years ag…

I don't think it's necessarily "know it all". Atleast for me, the subjectivity of morality merely means that everyone's morality is correct. Of course, I will disagree when someone claims something is a natural X or inherent Y, but that's a debate that both sides can leave satisfied, usually.

Re: Optimistic Nihilism (2017)

#70

Post by samirillian »

Avshalom wrote: post #31
samirillian wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But you just did that exact same thing! a) Do we know for sure that's what happens to the universe? and b) It doesn't matter anyway. "Everybody dies" is only a fact. What does the fact of heat death have to do with the question of meaning? The implication that "nothing means anything" is just as metaphysical an assumption as "everything means something."

a) math, even if not entropic heat death, a basic grasp of history show that 99.999...% of our lives are meaningless after some cut off. b)I am specifically claiming that while "nothing means anything" is the--lie that tells the truth--summation of nihilism it, by it's very nature, doesn't imply a course of action. So it doesn't matter how metaphysical of a claim it is.

a) If "everything means something" is at least equal in truth-value to "nothing means anything," it's simply not a matter of percentages.

b) If I understand you correctly, I think you're sneaking the assumption of nihilism back into your argument. The "lie that tells the truth" could also very well describe "everything means something," since I undeniably experience meaningfulness as something and not as nothing, despite all scientific facts. Just as I experience you as another soul though I know you are "just" matter. And this undeniable experience of meaning would undeniably imply a course of action. Non-harm (not treating a soul like an object) most immediately coming to mind.

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