Study shows salaries of young women 8% higher than men in peer group (2010) • Hacker News Board

Re: Study shows salaries of young women 8% higher than men in peer group (2010)

#251

Post by Can_Not » Tue, Apr 03, 2018, 8:39 PM UTC

logfromblammo wrote: post #247

sudoke wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>A lot of people--myself included--presume that would retard growth due to a lack of incentives No need to presume anything, we have a number of examples to look at throughout history. Actually, stunted economic growth is the best case scenario for socialist systems. Most of them achieve no more than mass starvation and death of millions of citizens.

I was trying to be diplomatic, as this is a matter heavily influenced by one's political beliefs, and somewhat resistant to the application of historical facts--such as the Holocaust, Holodomor, Killing Fields, Gulag Archipelago, Great Leap Forward, and Juche. A certain number of socialist believers must be retained to keep a system of unequal property from running away into oligarchic plutocracy. It's like putting a…

It's not like the other side of the political spectrum takes their crimes seriously: the trail of tears, Churchill's starving of 2 million Indians, the Holocaust (which somehow gets misplaced onto socialism even though Hitler purged the socialists in his party years before it started), the African slave trade, Belgian Kongo, 1973 CIA funded coup of Allende in Chile, Contras in Nicaragua, CIA funding of Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge, Conflict Minerals, Irish Potato Famine, Private Prison Industry, Drug Cartels, etc..

Re: Study shows salaries of young women 8% higher than men in peer group (2010)

#252

Post by randomdata » Tue, Apr 03, 2018, 9:20 PM UTC

UncleMeat wrote: post #249

randomdata wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If we take out of it the desire to find out why they're better educated (and ways we can balance it out), we're better off. I would argue it is because female-dominated professions tend to have schooling requirements, by law. Male-dominated professions are less apt to. Anecdotally speaking, I was able to start as a software developer, a male-dominated profession, when I was in high school and soon moved into doing…

> I would argue it is because female-dominated professions tend to have schooling requirements, by law. Male-dominated professions are less apt to. And you would base this off what data? Surely we shouldnt just be using our guts here.

> And you would base this off what data?

The data that shows that female-dominated professions are more apt to have legal requirements.

> Surely we shouldnt just be using our guts here.

Well, why not? We're not writing formal research papers here. Only writing comments for personal pleasure in our spare time.

Re: Study shows salaries of young women 8% higher than men in peer group (2010)

#253

Post by belorn » Tue, Apr 03, 2018, 9:21 PM UTC

the_grue wrote: post #242

jtolmar wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both definitions are useful. Different pay for the same work is obviously unjust at the surface because it affects individuals. But a different mixture of jobs that leads to unequal pay, while it doesn't involve anything so easy as pointing at an individual to blame, still hints at a structural problem in our society.

Not necessarily. It can point to different distribution of priorities between sexes. E.g. if women prefer to dedicate their energy to family and house, while men prefer to work more, it makes sense that men would earn more. If we quit assuming we all want the same thing and actually ask people what they want, we may actually learn something. There are studies that do ask this kind of questions and get interesting ans…

Not an disagreement, but a rather large detail is that it isn't the distribution of wants and needs that determine the distribution of priorities but rather the strategies employed to reach those wants and needs. If the strategies diverge then so do the priorities.

Re: Study shows salaries of young women 8% higher than men in peer group (2010)

#254

Post by ada1981 » Tue, Apr 03, 2018, 9:41 PM UTC

sudoke wrote: post #235

ada1981 wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't forget about dumb luck, one of the greatest predictors of wealth.

Dumb luck? What is dumb luck? So the wealth differences between a high school drop out and a college grad can largely be attributed to this "dumb luck"?

Probably yes. The factors that align to support someone to have access to and finish college vs. drop out have a lot to do with "luck".

Also, maybe I was lucky to have been able to come across stuff like this in my life to better shape my view of reality:

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/beautiful-minds/the-rol...

Re: Study shows salaries of young women 8% higher than men in peer group (2010)

#255

Post by ada1981 » Tue, Apr 03, 2018, 9:54 PM UTC

mitchty wrote: post #215

ada1981 wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting theory. So you think if women make more, than men will try to increase the wealth inequality in other ways? I'm curious about that. Alternately, they could also just learn how to validate and be with women's emotions (and their own).

> Alternately, they could also just learn how to validate and be with women's emotions (and their own). That would mean unlearning every single thing society tells us not to do. I would ask you listen to this: https://www.npr.org/2018/03/19/594719471/guys-we-have-a-prob... Humans are emotional creatures, modern men get that beaten out of them. If you're female I'd ask that you talk to some of the men you know and ask…

I studied PUA for a decade, coached it (and even saved the marriage of one of the all time most famous "gurus"). I was a master of shutting down my emotions, acting like a guy with avoidant attachment in order to trigger a womans anxious attachment.

I slept with tons of women and also couldn't sustain a "relationship" once any sort of actual intimacy was demanded of me.

Finally, after being at the brink of suicide, I realized that my emotions were deeply valuable things and that I needed to develop a relationship with them -- all of them, and stop trying to run from sadness or rage or jealousy or rejection.

Once that internal process reached a critical mass, I then began the work of retraining my nervous system to be oriented towards people who were more secure and able to be with others honest expression of emotion. This meant telling the truth and often feeling like shit when people did, in fact, reject me.

I regained my ability to feel, however, along with my ability to be with others feelings.

Now, I'm engaged to an incredible woman and have a coaching practice full of all sorts of folks seeking guidance on how to have real relationships. Some of my clients read HN, others run the companies you work for, star in the movies you stream or build the products you use.

It's hard work, but highly recommended and required if we are going to emerge into a new paradigm of human relating.

Gratuitous engagement video shot with drones on a remote tropical island that we are planning to turn into a village for visionaries like all of you here ;) >>

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEiW-Jee2eI

Re: Study shows salaries of young women 8% higher than men in peer group (2010)

#256

Post by nerdymanchild » Tue, Apr 03, 2018, 11:49 PM UTC

cup-of-tea wrote: post #224

nerdymanchild wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is a working free market predicated on consumers having perfect knowledge? Free != Efficient

That's just the definition of free market. How can it be be free if the consumers don't have perfect knowledge?

Because most people allowed to own property, run a business, and offer products and services?

Re: Study shows salaries of young women 8% higher than men in peer group (2010)

#257

Post by ghettoimp » Wed, Apr 04, 2018, 12:16 AM UTC

SaintGhurka wrote: post #151

ghettoimp wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you mean giving the same amount of leave to both fathers and mothers, isn't that already the norm? In the US it's nowhere close. "The Family and Medical Leave Act of 1993 (FMLA) requires 12 weeks of unpaid leave annually for mothers of newborn or newly adopted children... "California is the first state to offer paid paternity leave weeks (six weeks, partial payment). In the rest of the US, paternity pay weeks are…

>> If you mean giving the same amount of leave to both fathers and mothers, isn't that already the norm? > In the US it's nowhere close. I think that wikipedia page has misleading or outdated information in the summary. FMLA leave covers both mothers and fathers equally. From the Department of Labor: "Both mother and father are entitled to FMLA leave for the birth of their child, or placement with the employee of a c…

Thanks, this is interesting and I'd like to learn more.

FWIW I did some web searching for the policies at big tech companies (which of course offer more than the minimums. The following article is a bit dated (2015) but seems to give a nice summary of maternity- and paternity-leave policies.

http://time.com/money/4098469/paid-parental-leave-google-ama...

The TLDR: some (e.g., Facebook, Netflix) have parity between mothers and fathers but most of them (e.g., Amazon, Apple, Google, MS, Twitter) give at least some extra weeks for moms and/or birth moms.

Re: Study shows salaries of young women 8% higher than men in peer group (2010)

#258

Post by dingo_bat » Wed, Apr 04, 2018, 1:05 AM UTC

oblio wrote: post #150

ameister14 wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would also prevent raises.

You're assuming that I'm a world were transparency goes up, good negotiators go extinct? :)

No the assumption is that a good negotiator now has to negotiate for everyone. Because if you give a raise to him, others will come to know and ask for similar treatment.

Re: Study shows salaries of young women 8% higher than men in peer group (2010)

#259

Post by dingo_bat » Wed, Apr 04, 2018, 1:09 AM UTC

everyone wrote: post #70

dingo_bat wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't want my salary to be transparent. There is something called privacy. My salary is a private matter. I really don't believe I'm any kind of expert in negotiation.

Why? What benefit does that entail? Is is greater than the benefits of transparency?

Yes. My privacy is not a trivial matter.

Think of it like this. Will you be willing to post your entire web browsing history to a publicly available archive regularly? It will help prevent a lot of illegal activity if everyone agreed to do that.

Re: Study shows salaries of young women 8% higher than men in peer group (2010)

#260

Post by cdmcmahon » Wed, Apr 04, 2018, 1:48 AM UTC

chemochemo wrote: post #137

cdmcmahon wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If women aren’t having the same access to more lucrative positions or fields that men are, then that is discrimination — in education or the workplace or both. Unless you believe that something about women drives them away from such positions/fields or makes them less qualified in such positions/fields, in which case you are in the Damore camp.

Agreed -- if they aren't having the same _access_, it is discrimination. But once again, nothing in the study points to that. Do you believe men don't have access to jobs in the field of nursing? On average, women outnumber men 9.5 to 1 in nursing in the US. [0] [0] https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/human-capital-and-risk...

I think nursing may be a field where certain stereotypes, etc. keep the gender balance of the working population a certain way. And I think you correctly point out that men do have _access_ to the field of nursing so it’s not ad much of a problem per se. That said, the reason I think you can say men aren’t denied access is because you don’t have hordes of men revealing patterns of regular and constant discrimination, as you do in technological fields today, so I don’t think the comparison says what you wish it did.

Furthermore I think it’s telling that you being up nursing, a not particularly lucrative field, as a female dominated one. It’s not a secret that the most scrutiny is going to those fields that are the more lucrative/powerful as discrimination in such fields serves to keep wealth/influence concentrated in whiter, maler hands.